The good developers / expert users will not do what you state. The eclipse debug, inspector, watches are very much part of a normal dev cycle in our place with around 100 devs.
Even in Smalltalk I have seen less capable developers not exploiting even a fraction of the capability Smalltalk has and depend on loggers / prints to transcripts and lot less use of reflection live to inquire and detect issues faster. The issue I explained is that the capability exists and is not exploited due to process constraints in the industry even for Java, so Smalltalk capability will not be seen as a killer feature per se even if its more flexible and capable. The reflection to dump more logger information is of course most welcome but without adding any performance overhead at runtime except when the error occurs. I would further aver that all the Smalltalk capabilities are highly leveraged in a dev environment and is capable of cutting dev time to one third or even lesser in the hands of an expert. On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 11:12 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <s...@stfx.eu>wrote: > I am sorry, but I disagree. > > Yes, technically, much of what we take for granted is partially possible > in most other languages, but it is often hard to use, an add-on, an > afterthought. But more important, Java developers even do not use > debuggers/inspectors/browsers during development, let alone during > production. It's just edit/compile/run/crash - add some print statements > and run again. During production its all massive plain logging. > > We can dump live stacks with FUEL for example. > > On 24 Apr 2014, at 06:01, S Krish <krishnamachari.sudha...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > One can easily do that with Java / Eclipse or for VC++ / Visual Studio > with attach to process. Probably I would reckon these to be more "secure" > as industry prefers rather than having live debug capabilities built in to > the code delivered or somehow "in-process". I am sure all others as in > python, ruby et als will have debug in prod capabilities if reqd. > > > > Javascript with Rhino also can easily allow live debug if the reqd jar > is present.. > > > > The bigger purchase Smalltalk gives is in reflection that can be > leveraged to produce fairly extensive logger reports which no other > langauge currently does when fault occurs in production. > > > > I doubt in production the industry is as of now willing to let debug be > acceptable specially in Banking domain. > > > > The smalltalk advantages are not translating into business gains per se > given the comfort zone of security, safety production systems are wrapped > in procedurally. > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 7:39 AM, askoh <as...@askoh.com> wrote: > > Smalltalk has the capability of allowing live debugging in production > > servers. How unique is this capability? What other systems allow that? > > > > Is there a name for such capability? Can we coin one and market it? > > > > What are the pros and cons of having such a capability? > > > > All the best, > > Aik-Siong Koh > > > > > > > > -- > > View this message in context: > http://forum.world.st/Debugging-in-Production-Servers-tp4756136.html > > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at > Nabble.com. > > > > > > >
