When one looks at the implementers of "defaultSpec" (lots of Adapters,
tools), I find it more understandable to figure out how a tool is laid out.
How to follow what messages are sent around, err... much less
understandable indeed (So, sharing Sean's pain).
Of course, this is different from inspecting morphs. But it shouldn't be
so. If Morphs where isofunctional with the Adapters, it would be much more
regular.
It is glaring that the Morphs all have their own little view of the world
with no unified set of protocols, which isn't helping.
An example: MorphicRadioButtonAdapter
defaultSpec
<spec>
^ {#CheckboxMorph.
#on:selected:changeSelected:. #model. #state. #state:.
#label:. { #model. #label }.
#labelClickable:. { #model. #labelClickable}.
#beRadioButton.
#hResizing:. #shrinkWrap.
#vResizing:. #shrinkWrap.
#setBalloonText:. #(model help).
#dragEnabled:. #(model dragEnabled).
#dropEnabled:. #(model dropEnabled).
#dragEnabled:. #(model dragEnabled).
#dropEnabled:. #(model dropEnabled).
"#borderWidth:. #(model borderWidth).
#borderColor:. #(model borderColor)"}
A halo that would outline the SpecLayout bits and pieces would go a long
way in helping people figure out what's going on. A project in itself.
Now, can we both have a declarative UI and an easy to debug UI? As the
declarative things has its own interpreter and engine?
Phil
On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 9:22 AM, Tudor Girba <tu...@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
> +1 to both of you :)
>
> Doru
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 9:18 AM, stepharo <steph...@free.fr> wrote:
>
>> Hi sean
>>
>>
>> I've been mulling this over for a while, and since we've been having
>>> conversations about Spec's place in our future...
>>>
>> :)
>> Good. This is important that everybody express itself.
>>
>>
>>> DISCLAIMER: this is a visceral experience I've been having over a long
>>> period of time, so it may not be factually "true" or current, but I
>>> present
>>> it as a contribution, if only by someone saying "you're full of crap
>>> because..." and we all learn something.
>>>
>>> The purpose of Spec as I understand it is to both come up with a nice
>>> streamlined UI API, and to make multiple targets (e.g. Morphic, html)
>>> possible with the same codebase. These are both important goals. And it
>>> seems we've made some progress at least in the first case. I definitely
>>> enjoy working with Spec's API far more that e.g. PolyMorph.
>>>
>>> Spec could be a very valuable application-level tool. If I want to write
>>> a
>>> business application, I can write once via a nice API and deploy
>>> "anywhere".
>>> Life is good.
>>>
>>> My discomfort is with making *all* our core tools Spec-based.
>>>
>>
>> I agree this is why I started to write some little tool to be able to
>> browse the system
>> when Spec is shaking.
>>
>> Now when you see the code of the old browser this is not nice either.
>> So we will see and learn. But I can tell you that nothing is curved in
>> stone.
>> We will introduce GT but again you will get the same because GT is a
>> frameworks.
>>
>>
>> While it is great from an "eating our own dog food perspective", one of
>>> the great
>>> principles of Morphic is exploration and discoverability. Many times
>>> before
>>> Spec I was able to poke around a tool, figure out how it worked, and
>>> apply
>>> that lesson to my own UI. However, with Spec I find it extremely
>>> difficult
>>> to figure out WTH is going on. Parsing of arrays of symbols seems to have
>>> replaced Smalltalk code, and each field/model piece of a Spec UI seems
>>> to be
>>> buried behind multiple ValueHolder/Adapter/whatever levels. Granted, now
>>> that we have e.g. specialized inspectors, we might be able to alleviate
>>> this.
>>>
>>
>> We should iterate on it.
>> May be another framework will be better in the future
>>
>>
>>> My 2c.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----
>>> Cheers,
>>> Sean
>>> --
>>> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/When-
>>> all-you-have-is-Spec-everything-looks-like-a-nail-tp4775537.html
>>> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at
>>> Nabble.com.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> www.tudorgirba.com
>
> "Every thing has its own flow"
>
