2014-10-03 9:27 GMT-03:00 kilon alios <kilon.al...@gmail.com>: > First of all, if you are referring to me I never said "this is a shit". > > Second what you see as negativity I see it as honesty and for me is far > more important than "Pharo is yours". Assuming honesty does not become > rudeness. > > Third I dont recall anyone ever demanding a feature of you guys working > 24/7 to implement something disregarding your limited resources. > > Fourth I have to say that I really don't get the "Pharo is yours" motto. > Is there software out there , open source or not that does not listen to > its community and does not try hard to makes its users happy ? Pharo is not > mine, If I designed Pharo I would make a lot more diffirent choices than > the ones that are included in Pharo and many of them would be proven bad > and stupid in the long run because I have made many of them already. I want > to contibute and keep pushing Pharo forward but realistically Pharo will > never become mine and that maybe is more a good than a bad thing for the > rest of you. > > I have the same feeling. "Pharo is yours, but I take the main decisions". Actually it feels a little bit insulting, I am using Pharo since several years in a domain which nobody works with Smalltalk, and never got a survey request (except for some software engineering research). And I bet there are people not in the Pharo/Moose/Seaside team that didn't received any attention and they are doing significant experiences. Why they don't write here? I suspect one of the reasons is Pharo is being too motivated by software enineering research and not enough interest for other giant domains like 3D, finance, expert systems, HPC, etc. People perceive this.
> Fifth, the community overall is friendly, we had our clashes from time to > time but lets be realistic, what community does not ? I have had my bad > experiences while coding with python and just a daily participation in irc > channels and forums can prove this point easily. These things make one > mature emotionally and learn how to treat people online in a productive > way. Communities benefit more than fall apart from these incidents because > they really prove what kind of metal they are made of. > > Not helping does not help is something we will agree to disagree, > Companies invest billions of dollars on surveys to see how people feel > about a product. You may hate the idea of Pharo viewed as a product but > maybe then maybe you understimate the importance of this approach. Sooner > or later Pharo will need some serious funding to get more full time > developers and investors will see Pharo as a product. > > I see years passing but money never comes. You cannot expect big funding if you keep doing things the same as always. > In the end if what drives you all is to create a super cool product go out > and ask people what they truly feel about Pharo. Very few people use > smalltalk implementations , why ? What they don't like is far more > important to what they like. Learning to target features that your users > need the most is the path to success but even if the user does not really > know what he or she want getting to know your user needs or the way he/she > thinks is what will help you design tools that make people smile but most > importantly make people use on a day to day basis. > > If you are not ready to take in the negativity you wont go very far > because there is a ton of negativity out there. If you find my negative > bad, boy you have seen nothing . There is a lot of frustration out there > for things even unrelated to coding, sometimes accepting that help you > communicate easily with people . Dont try to suppress negative it will > become a volcano that will erupt eventually. > > Yes, please stop rejecting feedback that you won't like. Cheers, Hernán
