Thanks for this wonderfully positive message !! That is the spirit.
> On 09 Jan 2016, at 10:49, Dimitris Chloupis <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Since I am the mainn maintainer of UPBE and pretty much alone, I will have to
> disagree, I have expressed my dislike for GT tools in the past, I was quite
> vocal about my dislike about GTPlayground and especially the pages interface
> of GTInspector.
>
> Yet even though I am the one that usually ends up keep pushing UPBE forward
> the most, I never said dont include this GT tool because I will have to
> document it.
>
> As a matter of fact GT people are the rare breed of pharoers , close to
> extinction level, that bothers documenting its own tools making my job super
> easy and a matter of porting their blog posts to Pillar.
>
> Also its important to note here that our dear beloved debugger is decades
> old, maybe just maybe its time to try something new even if we dont like it.
>
> Afterall GT people were quick to adress my problems of Playground like the
> lack of copy paste in right click menu, the lack of tabs etc. We objected and
> criticised, they improved . End of story. None complains about the Playground
> anymore.
>
> Its also important to note that they constantly pushing pharo forward.
>
> On the matters of documentation I will accept zero excuses from this
> community. If one spent 10 minutes per week, I repeat 10 minutes per week, on
> contributing to UPBE we would have the following
>
> 1) a person even a slow typer, types at least 40 words per minute
> 2) in 10 minutes one can type 400 words
> 3) That is one page of UPBE (pdf version) in 10 minutes
> 4) thats 50 pages per year per person
> 5) if people who are experienced are at least 10, I think we can find 10
> people who understand pharo deeply , thats 500 pages per year
>
> we end up with the conclusion that the UPBE with extremely limited effort and
> extremely low amount of people would have by now the last 7 years that Pharo
> is around , 3500 pages of documentation.
>
> But since 10 people is too few and there a lot more judging from the mailing
> list , I will say 100 people is more realistic which means 35.000 pages or to
> put it more in perspective , thats the total of 10 UPBE books
>
> I repeat 10 UPBE BOOKS !!!!!
>
>
> So no no no and NO dont exclude the new debugger because of the effort to
> document, I respect Stef he and Damien are the ones responsible for the
> existenve of UPBE and PBE in the first place, they also helped me alot with
> Dimitri to port many chapters to pharo 4. Plus I love Pillar for
> documentation its awesome even with its flaws.
>
>
> But I say that GT people earned my trust, my trust that the have desire and
> visions to push Pharo forward and I say let them put the Debugger in who is
> going to hurt , it can be disabled and bring back the old one. Same story
> with Playground but seriously who bring back the old workspace ?
>
> Let them take the criticism and improve the new debugger, its a new thing of
> course it will have its flaws. But I dont want a Pharo that works well, I
> want a Pharo that keeps going forward.
>
> I have not the opportunity to download a new image because of my lack my
> connection is down and I use my mobile connection to do the minimum because
> it costs too much.
>
> But even if I heavily dislike the debugger like I did the the Playground I
> know that GT people will listen and will improve it, for that I have zero
> doubts because I admire their efforts even when I disagree with them.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 9, 2016 at 4:19 AM Ben Coman <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 9, 2016 at 4:22 AM, stepharo <[email protected]> wrote:
> > I'm sorry but this debugger should not be the default one.
> > MONDAY we are filming our mooc and we have to explain the debugger and
> > personally I do not see the gain:
> > - It looks a lot more complex to me and I do not want to have to redo
> > all the screenshots
> > of our lecture.
> > - Just that I have to learn the meaning of small icons.
> > - Why do we need a special pane for the evaluator
> > - Why there is a type column.
> > - Sorry but I'm not convinced about the moldable aspect behind the story
> > (no need to argue I know it)
>
> This also applies to UPBE. It would be good to get that out the door
> matching Pharo 5 without too much rework.
>
> cheers -ben
>
>
> > I would like to avoid to be forced to use not the latest version of Pharo
> > for the mooc.
> >
> > Such changes are arriving far too late in the release. We do not change the
> > debugger itself the day of code freeze.
> >
> > We decided that the GTDebugger can be included but to me it never meant that
> > it should be the default one.
> > I think that experts can choose the debugger they want. The newbies don't.
> >
> > Stef
> >
> >
>
