Hi Peter, Le 21 janv. 2016 à 09:49, Peter H. Meadows via Pharo-dev a écrit :
> > De : "Peter H. Meadows" <peter.h.mead...@googlemail.com> > Date : 21 janvier 2016 09:48:23 HNEC > À : Pharo Development List <pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org> > Objet : Rép : [Pharo-dev] [ANN] Pharo bootstrap > > > On 20 January 2016 at 16:36, p...@highoctane.be <p...@highoctane.be> wrote: >> >> >> On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 4:19 PM, Peter H. Meadows via Pharo-dev >> <pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>> From: "Peter H. Meadows" <peter.h.mead...@googlemail.com> >>> To: Pharo Development List <pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org> >>> Cc: >>> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2016 15:17:59 +0000 >>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] [ANN] Pharo bootstrap >>> Cool. Any chance someone can explain for beginners to understand >>> what's going on here? >>> Why is cleaning the image not as simple as running it and deleting any >>> object that wasn't used? >> >> >> The point is not to clean but to start with an empty object engine and fill >> it in with the minimum required core. > > But why should this not end up with the same end result? > One way is to start with nothing, and only add stuff we need to make > it run/boot, and the other way is to start with what we have, and > remove anything that is not needed to make it run/boot. In both cases > don't you end up with the same thing? in theory but in practice it is more difficult to clean, especially when you are not aware of what needs to be cleaned. Also, you have in a current image objects that have been modified by scripts that are not (anymore) available in the image. How do you reach the same state? The bootstrap forces you to have all the code to produce this state. It also checks some initialization code that has been run a couple of times, maybe years ago, and that does not work anymore. > >> Currently, the image is the result of an evolutionary process and rebuilding >> it from zero was not possible. > > I wonder if they thought about this when they created the first image. > Didn't they think 'hey, we should really have a way for anyone to > create new images from nothing'? Or was it just that they didn't get > around to making this tool? > >> This maes it possible to audit the whole build process, create different >> base image for various purposes (very small, headless with no UI objects at >> all, using the object engine in a completely different way that is used >> today). yes, it will enforce a lot modularity of Pharo. By example, you could have a version of Pharo without Traits or with a different kind of collections. >> That makes the image the result of a fully reproducible process, from a file >> of zero bytes, to a file with a working image. >> >> That would make us master the whole chain. Today, there is still black magic >> in the image, due to the history. >> >> That's an exciting development. For example, in C, one compiles all files, >> and links, giving the exe. All that from a file of zero size. We will be >> able to do the same kind of thing at the image level. >> >> Also, this allows to experiment with new low level mechanisms. This is >> currently not possible since it makes us like performing surgery on our own >> brain. Also, the Oz-inspired system will help in exploring other image >> memories (small or large) and manipulate them as entities. At this point, >> this is also not common pratice. >> >> HTH >> Phil, wishing to master the mitosis competency... >>> >>> >>> (Thanks in advance) >>> >>> On 20 January 2016 at 12:52, Guillermo Polito <guillermopol...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>>> Well, there is no formal specification… But I could summarize the >>>> features >>>> as follows (and as Christophe points mostly out) >>>> >>>> OzVM supports having two images in logically separated spaces. This >>>> separation is achieved by using the free bit in the object header. Thus >>>> we >>>> support only two spaces by now. >>>> >>>> - The main addition is actually a new primitive: >>>> #resumeFromSpecialObjectsArray that receives an special objects array as >>>> argument and: >>>> - resumes the execution from the active process of such array >>>> - on context switch, if the VM is running from a second special >>>> objects >>>> array, it will return to the first one instead. >>>> >>>> - fixes to primitives/bytecodes that assume a single special objects >>>> array. >>>> e.g., >>>> - #someObject and #nextObject should only iterate objects from the >>>> correct “space” >>>> - #isNil comparisons should take the correct nil >>>> - the GC should set the correct nil object on Weak containers >>>> >>>> The extensions I made are about 20 overrides to StackPrimitive and >>>> NewObjectMemory methods. >>>> >>>> The rest is implemented completely on image side. We use mirror >>>> primitives >>>> to manipulate objects from other space (as each image/space has it’s own >>>> selector table). >>>> >>>> I have in my long TODO list see if the "clever hack” I did can be >>>> supported >>>> in a nice manner on top of Spur’s segmented memory. However, I should >>>> stop >>>> commencing new projects and start finishing them :P. >>>> >>>> On 20 ene 2016, at 9:03 a.m., Christophe Demarey >>>> <christophe.dema...@inria.fr> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Eliot, >>>> >>>> Le 19 janv. 2016 à 19:29, Eliot Miranda a écrit : >>>> >>>> Hi All, >>>> >>>> great news! Where can I read a specification of the Oz VM >>>> facilities? >>>> >>>> >>>> I do not know all the details of the Oz VM but basically, it is a >>>> standard >>>> stack interpreter vm specialized to be able to run 2 images at the same >>>> time >>>> on top of it. >>>> Guillermo made it possible by using one available bit in the object >>>> header >>>> of objects to mark the ownership of an object (e.g. is my object from >>>> image1 >>>> or image2?). Then, he mainly had to specialize VM primitives dealing >>>> with >>>> objects retrieval from memory. By example, he had to modify the garbage >>>> collector to set the right nil instance (yes, we have 2 images so 2 nil >>>> instances. we need to take the one of the active image) when an object >>>> is >>>> garbage collected; the primitive someObject has to return an object from >>>> the >>>> active image, etc. >>>> There is also a way to switch execution from an image to the other just >>>> by >>>> switching the special objects array reference. >>>> >>>> You can find some information in: >>>> https://guillep.github.io/files/publications/Poli15Thesis.pdf. >>>> The Oz code is in http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Guille/ObjectSpace and in >>>> https://github.com/guillep/OzVM >>>> The current implementation uses Cog 6.6.1and OzVM-GuillermoPolito.22. >>>> I do not know if Guille has a more formal specification of the Oz VM. >>>> >>>> If you have advices on what is the best way to handle two distinct >>>> object >>>> (memory) spaces in Spur, they will be welcomed :) >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Christophe >>>> >>>> >>>> _,,,^..^,,,_ (phone) >>>> >>>> On Jan 19, 2016, at 6:29 AM, Christophe Demarey >>>> <christophe.dema...@inria.fr> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> In case you do not know, we work on bootstrapping Pharo, i.e. create a >>>> Pharo >>>> image from sources, not based on a previous image (well, we use a pharo >>>> image to produce it but no code / state from it). >>>> >>>> This process will allow to define a minimal Pharo kernel (currently 52 >>>> packages but we could have it far smaller) and to modularize the whole >>>> image >>>> (currently packages have too much dependencies on packages already >>>> loaded >>>> into the image). >>>> The bootstrap process also allows to write down the recipe to initialize >>>> a >>>> new image from scratch (some code is missing in the image or is wrong). >>>> In >>>> addition, I think we will clean a lot of historical objects that are not >>>> used anymore. >>>> >>>> With the amazing work done by Guillermo Polito during his Phd (around >>>> Espell, Oz): >>>> https://guillep.github.io/files/publications/Poli15Thesis.pdf, >>>> we succeeded to get a first prototype of a bootstraped Pharo 5 image >>>> (from >>>> 5.392). >>>> This prototype is able to run an eval command line handler and to log >>>> output >>>> / errors. Not all classes are yet initialized and you cannot yet save / >>>> restart this image but it is a big step forward. >>>> It is a 4 mb image (could be half the size without unicode data). You >>>> can >>>> download it at: >>>> >>>> http://chercheurs.lille.inria.fr/~demarey/pmwiki/pub/pharo-bootstrap/pharo-bootstrap.zip. >>>> >>>> Next steps are to have a bootstrapped image fully working, then to load >>>> packages on top of it (like network, sunit) to produce a minimal image. >>>> Then, we need to implement an Oz VM on top of Spur. >>>> After that, we need to work on a reliable way to build the bootstrap >>>> (not >>>> too sensitive to changes in the image). >>>> >>>> Christophe. >>>> >>>> ------- >>>> demarey@193-51-236-143:~/dev/rmod/bootstrap/bootstrap-2016-01-19$ >>>> ../pharo >>>> bootstrap.image --no-default-preferences eval "1 + 1" >>>> 2 >>>> demarey@193-51-236-143:~/dev/rmod/bootstrap/bootstrap-2016-01-19$ >>>> ../pharo >>>> bootstrap.image --no-default-preferences eval "'a' , 'b'" >>>> 'ab' >>>> demarey@193-51-236-143:~/dev/rmod/bootstrap/bootstrap-2016-01-19$ >>>> ../pharo >>>> bootstrap.image --no-default-preferences eval "1 / 0" >>>> ZeroDivide >>>> SmallInteger>>/ >>>> UndefinedObject>>DoIt >>>> OpalCompiler>>evaluate >>>> OpalCompiler(AbstractCompiler)>>evaluate: >>>> SmalltalkImage>>evaluate: >>>> >>>> EvaluateCommandLineHandler>>no (source is Undeclared) >>>> no source in EvaluateCommandLineHandler>>evaluate: in Block: no source >>>> BlockClosure>>on:do: >>>> EvaluateCommandLineHandler>>evaluate: >>>> EvaluateCommandLineHandler>>evaluateArguments >>>> EvaluateCommandLineHandler>>activate >>>> EvaluateCommandLineHandler class(CommandLineHandler >>>> class)>>activateWith: >>>> >>>> BasicCommandLineHandler>>no (source is Undeclared) >>>> no source in >>>> PharoCommandLineHandler(BasicCommandLineHandler)>>activateSubCommand: in >>>> Block: no source >>>> BlockClosure>>on:do: >>>> PharoCommandLineHandler(BasicCommandLineHandler)>>activateSubCommand: >>>> PharoCommandLineHandler(BasicCommandLineHandler)>>handleSubcommand >>>> PharoCommandLineHandler(BasicCommandLineHandler)>>handleArgument: >>>> >>>> BasicCommandLineHandler>>no (source is Undeclared) >>>> no source in PharoCommandLineHandler(BasicCommandLineHandler)>>activate >>>> in >>>> Block: no source >>>> BlockClosure>>on:do: >>>> PharoCommandLineHandler(BasicCommandLineHandler)>>activate >>>> PharoCommandLineHandler>>activate >>>> PharoCommandLineHandler class(CommandLineHandler class)>>activateWith: >>>> >>>> PharoCommandLineHandler class>>no (source is Undeclared) >>>> no source in PharoCommandLineHandler class>>activateWith: in Block: no >>>> source >>>> NonInteractiveUIManager(UIManager)>>defer: >>>> PharoCommandLineHandler class>>activateWith: >>>> no source in BasicCommandLineHandler>>activateSubCommand: in Block: no >>>> source >>>> BlockClosure>>on:do: >>>> BasicCommandLineHandler>>activateSubCommand: >>>> BasicCommandLineHandler>>handleSubcommand >>>> BasicCommandLineHandler>>handleArgument: >>>> no source in BasicCommandLineHandler>>activate in Block: no source >>>> >>>> SmallInteger>>no (source is Undeclared) >>>> >>>> UndefinedObject>>no (source is Undeclared) >>>> >>>> AbstractCompiler>>no (source is Undeclared) >>>> >>>> SmalltalkImage>>no (source is Undeclared) >>>> >>>> BlockClosure>>no (source is Undeclared) >>>> >>>> EvaluateCommandLineHandler>>no (source is Undeclared) >>>> >>>> EvaluateCommandLineHandler>>no (source is Undeclared) >>>> >>>> CommandLineHandler class>>no (source is Undeclared) >>>> >>>> BasicCommandLineHandler>>no (source is Undeclared) >>>> >>>> BasicCommandLineHandler>>no (source is Undeclared) >>>> >>>> PharoCommandLineHandler>>no (source is Undeclared) >>>> >>>> UIManager>>no (source is Undeclared) >>>> >>>> UndefinedObject>>no (source is Undeclared) >>>> >>>> CommandLineUIManager>>no (source is Undeclared) >>>> >>>> SmalltalkImage>>no (source is Undeclared) >>>> >>>> DelayMicrosecondScheduler>>no (source is Undeclared) >>>> >>>> BlockClosure>>no (source is Undeclared) >>>> >>>> SmalltalkImage>>no (source is Undeclared) >>>> >>>> WeakArray class>>no (source is Undeclared) >>>> >>>> >>>> ps: source cannot be displayed because there is no formatter available >>>> in >>>> the bootstrap >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> > > >
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