On 26 April 2010 10:57, Lukas Renggli <reng...@gmail.com> wrote: > Igor, > > Looks cool, but I really would like to know the exact difference to Exupery? > > For what I understand NativeBoost is no different to Exupery's > low-level code generation infrastructure.
You are free to use any code generator you want. NativeBoost plugin is really dumb and will run your code at your will. I am using AsmJit, because its small and dumb too. Mainly its just an x86/x64 instruction database with some convenience class(es) and methods to generate instructions directly. In contrast, Exupery is a full-blown compiler, but supports a very small subset of x86 instructions. Actually, i think that with some effort, an Exupery could use AsmJit as backend. Not sure, if Bryce likes this idea :) > Check out the Exupery > documentation: <http://goran.krampe.se/exuperyDesign.pdf>. > Thanks, i read it before. I know many things about Exupery. I even contributed to Exupery codebase once upon a time. > Some more questions about NativeBoost: > > - How do I send a message? > You don't. Think of a native code as a primitive. > - How do I evaluate a block passed as argument? > Same as above. > - How do I access the VM state? > Through interpreterProxy functions. In same way as any plugin does. Exupery having a good extension (which i contributed to it btw), which allows you to retrieve any VM symbol address, so then you can call any VM function or access any of its global state directly. But currently i'm trying to stay away from changing VM, because i want my plugin to work on usual VMs. > Lukas > > On 26 April 2010 09:38, Igor Stasenko <siguc...@gmail.com> wrote: >> On 26 April 2010 08:41, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.duca...@inria.fr> wrote: >>> >>> On Apr 26, 2010, at 12:06 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: >>> >>>> Stef, >>>> >>>> I have read that Alien is not very good at calling functions - I have *no* >>>> idea whether that is fair, but we should check before adopting it. If it >>>> is indeed poor at them, I recommend using FFI until we or its maintainers >>>> can fix Alien. >>> >>> there are no such alien maintainers. There are us. >>>> >> Innndeeeddd :) >> >> Besides, i plan to support callbacks in NativeBoost, >> so, you'll be able to handle callback without entering the interpreter >> & language-side (as well as entering - at your will ;). >> Handling a callbacks natively is waaay much faster than go all the way >> through calling interpret(), >> especially, when you need to do something very simple, like count bunnies :) >> So, Alien could use a NativeBoost as extension to do things faster, >> smoother & nicer :) >> >>>> Also, whatever we include should work on windows, mac and Linux. Alien >>>> seems to be getting close to read on Linux, but Laurent reported ugly >>>> crashes when trying to actually run it. That would not be good for a >>>> supported platform. >>>> >>>> Bill >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: pharo-project-boun...@lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> [mailto:pharo-project-boun...@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Stéphane >>>> Ducasse >>>> Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 3:05 PM >>>> To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI in 1.1 >>>> >>>> Probably. >>>> There were some discussions that alien will be integrated / working also >>>> for the windows vm. >>>> So we will see which one I will let people with more experience telling >>>> that to us. >>>> >>>> Stef >>>> >>>> On Apr 25, 2010, at 9:26 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 6:12 PM, Stéphane Ducasse >>>>> <stephane.duca...@inria.fr> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> yes communication with C library. so this is just a tool too. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Exactly. It is a tool. Not a dev tool in my opinion.In such way, >>>>>> SqueakDBX is also a tool. A tool to persist in a relational database. >>>>> >>>>> Mariano FFI/ALIEN is ***REALLY*** important to get the possibility to >>>>> call and write code in smalltalk as mentioned by john so this is more >>>>> central (closer to core) than openDBX or refactoring browser. >>>>> Look at lua... why lua is cool because he can be embeded seamlessly in >>>>> C and call C. So if we do not put pressure on FFI to support callback >>>>> well or ALIEN then we will stay this language that has problem to >>>>> interact with the outside world. >>>>> This is why having FFI in pharo-dev is important. We should be able to >>>>> call mac native menu. >>>>> Of course we should pay attention that we rely too much on C library >>>>> but the world is getting more complex and writing everything in >>>>> smalltalk is also costly. Not FFI/ALIEN can reduce our dependency to C >>>>> compilation and C-writing so this is already an important step. >>>>> Am I clear? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Yes, and I agree. However, that was not the discussion. I agree FFI is >>>>> important. I don't care to add it to PharoDev 1.1 if you agree with that. >>>>> But I STILL think and that's what I was discussing in the last mail, is >>>>> that FFI is NOT A DEV TOOL for me. >>>>> Anyway...forget this little discussion. >>>>> >>>>> In summary, should I add FFI when I start to build PharoDev 1.1 ? >>>>> >>>>> Cheers >>>>> >>>>> Mariano >>>>> >>>>> Stef >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>> Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>> Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>> Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>> Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> Igor Stasenko AKA sig. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > -- > Lukas Renggli > www.lukas-renggli.ch > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig. _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
