On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 4:57 PM, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.duca...@inria.fr> wrote: > > On Aug 30, 2010, at 4:28 AM, Sudhakar Krishnamachari wrote: > >> >> Good to see some of the concerns addressed. >> >> " >> Now so far I do not see companies really putting effort so may be nothing >> will happen but this will not be >> because of us. :)" >> >> >> This is the chicken and egg situation. Bar highly motivated startups with >> some money in their pockets to splurge on with. The average co consists of >> average managers who want no risk..!. They want a technology they can blame >> for its shortcomings/ the support offered by another co if they are stuck >> for a fix. But in most ( I would say 90+% of timeline) cases the business >> continuity should not be affected. > > Sure this is clear. > Now my point is pragmatic. > >> The average company will probably not invest their time on a technology if >> it does not meet the bar set by the current technology. > > Well lot of companies are using seaside and pharo and as such the fact that > the infrastructure is getting better is important. > >> >> Let me take Spring Architecture as an example in the Java world. J2EE was ( >> and to an extent is) entrenched in the world of Java enterprise. Way back >> about 8 yrs back or so .. Rod Johnson started his foray in to simplifying >> the complexity of J2EE with his framework. I would say through atleast 4+ >> yrs of the 8 he would have close to nil support from any company and like >> the Jim Collins "Good to Great" simile built up the giant wheel momentum now >> to engage nearly all known companies to use Spring all through instead of >> J2EE except in the niche cases. Its is an instruction to notice how Spring >> got interfaces to nearly all of Java connected that would be possibly needed >> for a medium enterprise case and then went into the depths/ specialization >> etc.. that is breadth first and then the depth. >> >> So I would say "WE" (including myself as a avowed Smaltalker) need to keep >> trying and pushing for a concerted go at getting Pharo up there.. and >> possibly the "GiantWheel momentum" will kick in with first a few co's and >> then more.. to push this rolling with god speed to its eventual >> greatness..!!.. > > welcome! > >> And that indeed is happening and its suprised me how far Pharo has already >> rolled and is building a momentum that is sure to go far if I can put my >> little effort as all others to get some of the minimal frameworks integrated. > > we need help > >> We have either of two approaches to take: meet up to the current bar set by >> Java/ .Net world in terms of programming baseline ( as I listed in the prior >> mail) or take a radical approach that differs so much and offers so much to >> pull in others..like Rails did. I would say if we are interested in the >> numbers game I would choose the former, if we wish to retain the >> intellectual high ground and move on the latter is fine.. > > we can have a vision, a vision without action does not exist. > What we are doing are > - providing robust infrastructure > - making the system lean and clean > - slowly rewriting parts > now if people with other agendas want to focus on other parts we are more > than happy. > > >> >> To get the numbers to have an interest in Pharo I will go back to my >> charter for Smalltalk spread in Universities / Colleges ( the underlying >> reason I started SmalltalkIndia) and see how far it can be resuscitated to >> create a mass base of users ( even if they are amateurs) and then hope a >> good percentage of them retain a greater interest to contribute spare time >> to improve the frameworks in Pharo. > > Would be great. Let me know how I can help > Do you know I have free slides? > http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr/Resources/LecturesInPowerpoint/
Great Skrish ! Can you say a bit more on your indian Smalltalk User Group ? Do you have any website ? I'm located in Vietnam (Ha Noi) and want to foster Smalltalk in Asia (especially in South-East Asia). I just spend 2 weeks in Japan and meet some Japanese Smalltalkers in Tokyo. I'm also interested to visit India to meet Smalltalkers in 2011. Regards, -- Serge Stinckwich UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC), Hanoi, Vietnam Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk http://doesnotunderstand.org/ _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
