And here is the tweet I was mentioning: https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/1075011040373551104?s=21
Cheers, Doru -- www.feenk.com "Every thing has its own flow." > On 21 Dec 2018, at 21:32, Tudor Girba <tu...@tudorgirba.com> wrote: > > Hi, > > Thanks for detailing your thoughts. > > Indeed, I know about your application. Whatever you can do with the current > GT you will be able to do with the new one. > > Except that for the new one you will be able to do extra things. Here are a > few: > - You can build and share documents that embed those inspector views. This > can be useful for reporting or sharing diagnostics with your users. > - Because the underlying rendering engine is much more powerful, you can > express modern and interfaces that integrate with the rest of the environment > smoothly. > - You likely have to deal with log files that might get large. First, the new > editor allows you to smoothly work with such files. But, you can go well > beyond this. Imagine that you build a tooling that produces the same editor > only the text is interactive, and you might even embed visual artifacts right > in the text to bridge the gap between what you would see in a typical > console. For example, this tweet shows the new Transcript used to debug an > animation. For every animation frame, we output the text corresponding with > the frame and we insert the graphical preview corresponding to that step. > > You look at GT from the point of view of an end-user. You likely like the > fact that you could mold the environment to your context and that you could > do this incrementally. It happens that the same principles and tools can be > applied to the whole programming, and once you do that, you actually can > fundamentally change the act of programming. In fact, the same thing applies > to the old GT: we built the new GT using that version and we believe that > this allowed us to work much faster than if we would have used more > traditional tools. The new GT pushes the envelope significantly further. > > So, that is why we are excited about that perspective, but even if you do not > spend much time programming in Pharo, you can still take advantage for the > user point of view as described above :). > > Is this answer better? > > Cheers, > Doru > > > >> On Dec 21, 2018, at 4:59 PM, Luke Gorrie <l...@snabb.co> wrote: >> >> On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 at 10:58, Tudor Girba <tu...@tudorgirba.com> wrote: >> The goal of the new GT is to propose a completely reshaped programming >> experience that enables moldable development. You will find the concepts >> from the old GT in the new world as well. For example, the Inspector is >> extensible in similar ways and the API is similar as well. >> [...] >> Does this address the concern? >> >> I am not sure yet :). >> >> Programming is not our main use case for GT. We are using GT as an object >> inspector (etc) for examining diagnostic data. We have a Smalltalk >> application that's similar to GDB and we are using GT as the front-end. >> >> In our world we use the Inspector and the Spotter but all of the Smalltalk >> programming views are hidden. GT is "molded" to be a diagnostic tool >> *instead of* a programming environment. Specifically, our main use case is >> inspecting/debugging the operation of a JIT compiler written in C. We have >> Smalltalk code to load binary coredumps from the JIT, decode them using >> DWARF debug information, and represent the application-level compiler data >> structures as Smalltalk objects. This way we can use GT to browse generated >> code, cross-reference profiler data, examine runtime compilation errors, >> etc. >> >> The "old" GT is awesome for this. I feel like this application is also very >> much in the spirit of the "moldable tools" thesis. Lots of diagnostic >> workflows ultimately boil down to drill-down inspecting and/or searching. >> >> I don't know where we stand with respect to the "new" GT though. I am >> talking about diagnostics, you are talking about programming. I am talking >> about zeros and ones, you are talking about feelings. I am maintaining a >> stable application, you are talking about rewrites. I am having a hard time >> whether I should be switching to the new GT in the immediate future, or >> waiting another year or two for it to mature, or planning to stick with the >> old GT. >> >> Hints would be appreciated :) >> >> I reiterate that I think you guys are doing fantastic work - some of the >> most interesting work in the programming universe to my mind. I hope that >> this discussion is useful for at least understanding the thought process of >> some users / potential users. >> >> Cheers! >> -Luke >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> moose-...@list.inf.unibe.ch >> https://www.list.inf.unibe.ch/listinfo/moose-dev > > -- > www.feenk.com > > "Being happy is a matter of choice." > > > > >
