Hi Sean, You wrote: "Basically you're saying that an acoustic recording would react differently than an electric recording with this system, no?"
Not quite.... This is very general information and presents basic concepts. It is not intended to be (nor is it even close to) an exhaustive dissertation on the recording process. (Where is Tom Rhodes when I need him anyway? Tom? Tom?) An acoustically recorded master and an electrically recorded master are identical [only] in so far as they each have a groove that contains impressions representative of the music, voice, and other sounds. That's where their similarities end though. The Auxetophone simply "reacts" to whatever sounds are present in the groove. It doesn't care what type of record (VE or early Monarch, for example) it is playing and of course it has no way of detecting the type of record. Where the acoustically recorded master and an electrically recorded master differ most dramatically is in the method that is used to control the cutting head of the lathe that cuts the groove. Acoustic recording (mastering) relies on passive devices like recording horns to cause lateral movements of the lathe's cutting head as it cuts the spiral groove. The range of frequencies that can be recorded by an acoustic system is generally quite limited. On acoustic recordings you typically find that low frequencies like tubas or the voice of a baritone are usually very soft in comparison to more midrange type sounds like Harry Raderman's trombone or tenor voices like Caruso or Billy Murray. Again, the high frequencies of the acoustic recordings also tend to be subdued because of the limitations of the recording equipment. For example, acoustic recordings of the violins of Fritz Kreisler and Efrem Zimbalist tend to sound soft as does the voice of a soprano like Alma Gluck. Electrical recording (mastering) made use of active devices like microphones and amplifiers that, prior to about the 1920's, weren't yet mainstream. In this scenario, the output of the amplifier controls the lateral movements of the lathe's cutting head. The obvious advantage to this technique was at least twofold: (1) Electrically amplified signals could drive (move) the cutting head with greater dynamic range (i.e. bigger cuts produce louder sound) and (2) Microphones had somewhat better frequency response than recording horns which meant that more of the entire sound spectrum (and most notably, the low frequencies and high frequencies) could be more accurately represented. This is the chief reason as to why most Victor VEs, for example, can produce much better sound than most early acoustic recordings. I say "most" only because I have heard some abysmal electrical recordings and also a few acoustic recordings that sound so good that they seem to defy every limitation of the technology otherwise ascribed to it. But, another factor that is related to electrically recorded masters is the use of filtering for the purpose of equalization. This allowed various portions of the frequency spectrum to be essentially either amplified or attenuated, the use of which seems to vary all over the place during the days of early electrical recordings. (Now THAT is Tom's baby to talk about....) Since the Auxetophone can enhance the loudness and tonal quality of virtually all recordings of its era (1906 or so) it seems like it should easily enhance the sound of a VE as well. I don't think the greater dynamic range of the VE is so dramatically different that there would be any sort of overdriving of the Auxetophone's system, but I must admit that I am ignorant of the specific physics surrounding it and neither have I heard a VE played on one. I do not recall hearing the Auxetophone at Jasper's this year so I cannot relate to what you may have been thinking of when you heard Arden and Ohman's "Strike up the Band". Then again, I am so overwhelmed by his collection that maybe I did hear it, but I just forgot. Mark Lynch was babysitting me because my mommy couldn't come to the show this year. Maybe he remembers. Mark? Walt -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Sean Miller Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 7:34 PM To: 'Antique Phonograph List' Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Auxetophone Sold! Actually, Walt that's a very interesting insight. Basically you're saying that an acoustic recording would react differently than an electric recording with this system, no? I remember hearing Jasper SanFillipo's Auxetophone playing a scroll Victor of Arden and Ohman's "Strike up the band" and it sounded pretty good. Dave Heitz had one that I remember hearing an acoustic Sousa on and it too sounded good. Did it have some sort of compensation for groove modulation or am I just dreaming (or wishfully thinking)? Always curious, Sean -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Walt Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 7:09 PM To: 'Antique Phonograph List' Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Auxetophone Sold! Doug/All, Firstly, please forgive this somewhat lengthy email, but your [Doug] email about the Auxetophone was a spark for me that kicked off what I hope is useful information, although perhaps a bit deeper than usual. So, from me to Doug, here's a big thanks!!! The Auxetophone reproducer uses a lever (called a "weigh bar" by the inventor) that ultimately interacts with a valve. This arrangement takes the place of the diaphragm. One way to help envision the technology employed is to think about how a gasoline carburetion system supplies fuel using a bowl and float valve. It's not an exact analogy it will help introduce a principle if you just envision the needle moving in and out to allow or disallow the flow of fuel. The stylus (needle) is connected to the weigh bar in such a way that the movement caused during record play essentially modulates the flow of pressurized air, the effect of which is to generate air movement (i.e. sound) that is radically more energetic than a mere diaphragm type reproducer can cause on its own. VE records should sound fantastic on the system as designed (if it is working correctly) but I have never heard them played. Has anyone else? Since the system doesn't use a diaphragm as such there isn't really much in the way of a technology that I see to borrow from the Orthophonic system because control (i.e. movement) of the [modulating] valve ultimately depends on the stylus' ability to overcome the higher positive pressure exerted on it from the compressor side of the system. I don't even think that the use of bearings would afford anything tangible to help the system operate more efficiently (i.e. better sound) but if someone wants to send me one to tear apart <grin>..... The guy who invented the reproducer (Charles Parsons) was an English inventor with some amazing patents in the field of pneumatics generally. He doesn't seem to have been a "phonograph guy" at all really. His other patents, although not related to the phonograph, actually give a lot of insight about how the Auxetophone system seems to have been inspired. It takes some very open minded engineering prowess to consider, so I won't bore the list with them, but if you want the information, please email me off-list: [email protected]. Thanks Doug for kicking off an intellectual spark.... Walt -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Douglas Houston Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 4:36 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Auxetophone Sold! Oh, indeed, but the punch in the enjoyment of hearing one of the "Compresdair-o-phones" is (to me) the way they would have handled an orchestra in a dance hall of that era. Of course, an orthophonic disc would drive the player to high output, but I just wonder if an electrical recording might over drive the pneumatic sound box into very bad distortion......? I've played a later Victor recording of Smetana's "Dance of the Comedians" on my Credenza, and that thing is like a P.A. system. > [Original Message] > From: <[email protected]> > To: Antique Phonograph List <[email protected]> > Date: 8/12/2007 4:20:30 PM > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Auxetophone Sold! > > The Caruso record is actually an historically accurate > demonstration. When new, these machines were often used to present a > famous singer (by way of the record) in concert with a live orchestra. > > If you want to hear a loud demonstration, then later electrical > record is more dramatic. > > > On Aug 12, 2007, at 11:52 AM, Douglas Houston wrote: > > > I've heard an Auxetophone, and granted, it was nice and loud. But > > it seems > > that when someone demonstrates one of those players, they always avoid > > using a musical selection; that is, an orchestra. They universally > > p,lay a > > Caruso recording, and I think that the thing is short-changed as > > far as > > demonstrated performance is concerned. I'd love to hear one with an > > orchestra playing, but probably never will. > > > > > >> [Original Message] > >> From: DeeDee Blais <[email protected]> > >> To: <[email protected]> > >> Date: 8/12/2007 11:21:26 AM > >> Subject: [Phono-L] Auxetophone Sold! > >> > >> Portland seems to be the place to find an Auxetophone. > >> In addition to the two that surfaced a few years ago, > >> one sold this weekend. I believe I was second in line > >> but another collector scraped up the asking price of > >> $2500. I don't know if it had the blower assembly > >> but the seller said the electronics did not work. It > >> had the large mahogany horn and had been refinished. > >> I don't know who bought it but he's one lucky > >> collector! > >> > >> > >> > >> > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > ______ > > ________ > >> Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search > >> that gives answers, not web links. > >> http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Phono-L mailing list > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. 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