There is no doubt the case was refinished.  Had the machine been equipped 
with a 2&4 minute gear then I would have said the large diameter reproducer 
carriage could have been contemporaneous to the period.  But, with no speed 
change 
gearing this must have been done when the machine was "restored!"  It also 
appears that the topworks and bedplate were painted over as they look nice but 
have no gold pinstripe.  I would place my bet that the horn was a reproduction 
as well as the decal on the golden oak finish, which is an incorrect finish.
 
Always get a serial number for a machine you wish to purchase.  It can tell 
you a great deal.  If the topworks were a Model B on a Model A motor with no 
springs for suspension or if the decal were wrong for the machine, etc., the 
serial would tell.  e.g.  The banner transfer gave way to the simple Edison 
script around machine #344000.  Frankenmutt Edisons are so easy to put together 
that one has to be careful that the "as found from grandson of original owner" 
will not give you a Gem D with a Diamond B reproducer in a large diameter 
horizontal carriage.  Yes, it was a put together arrangement that would not 
play a 4 
minute record all the way through because of the pressure applied by the B 
stylus.  Since it was so "ultra-rare" it went high on eBay to a newbie who 
swallowed the bait, hook, line, and sinker.
 
Estimated value on a "restored" put-together machine is really the sum of the 
valuable parts and not as a whole machine.  eBay prices have been ranging 
from just over $300 to $500 for more original machines.  So, IMHO the 
phonograph 
is worth $200, the broken C reproducer $85, and the all brass witches hat horn 
repro $35.  Grand total value of $320 on a good day.
 
Best Wishes to Everyone,
 
Al
 



**************The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the Grammy 
Awards. Go to AOL Music.      
(http://music.aol.com/grammys?NCID=aolcmp00300000002565)
From gbogan...@charter.net  Wed Feb 13 13:33:22 2008
From: gbogan...@charter.net (Greg Bogantz)
Date: Wed Feb 13 18:34:43 2008
Subject: [Phono-L] threaded needles
References: 
<000601c86819$e97a0be0$0200a...@office><47a8bd72.7020...@mediaguide.com><bay123-dav14049431ae33eba9f9485daa...@phx.gbl><003d01c86849$a75cd780$6400a...@hpa1514n><bay123-dav8d9ec8feaac0c056609b5aa...@phx.gbl><002701c86868$be365b60$6400a...@hpa1514n><bay102-w390dfe8801f25d44acb4f3f6...@phx.gbl>
        <003b01c86aab$aaaf34a0$6400a...@hpa1514n>       
<bay102-w3408c96e4bb9f89a711a06f6...@phx.gbl>   
<001b01c86b58$6463df20$6400a...@hpa1514n><1885592092.20080209134...@noring.name>
        <47b3502c.7000...@mediaguide.com>
Message-ID: <006401c86e88$0f67af00$6400a...@hpa1514n>

Thatcher,

    That's essentially what I am now doing.  The present design is a press 
fit of the needle shank into the hole (deep well, actually) in the needle 
bar.  But the fit must be tight to prevent rattling.  This makes the 
machining difficult, but more significantly, it makes the needle exchange 
difficult because you must use pliers, tweezers, or some similar tool to 
hold both the needle bar and the needle shank for both insertion and 
removal.  Not user-friendly.  Specialized tools and/or jigs could be 
furnished to make the job easier, but it's still a tedious task.  A friend 
of mine has experimented with a similar design.  His solution is to glue the 
needle shank into the needle bar.  That works, but getting the worn needle 
out of the needle bar is a b*tch.  He gets around this by using the 
"semi-permanant" osmium Pfanstiehl needles that were popular in the 1940s 
and can last for several playings.  I don't agree with this because these 
needles are too hard, as I've commented before, and must be worn in over 
several playings on junk records to form their flats.  He removes the needle 
by heating the glue with a soldering iron to cause it to flow.  Still, very 
tedious.

Greg Bogantz



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Thatcher Graham" <thatc...@mediaguide.com>
To: "Antique Phonograph List" <phono-l@oldcrank.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 3:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] threaded needles


>
> As an engineer I could not help but to fixate on this "threaded needle 
> idea". I agree that threading needles solves the mass issue hence the 
> instinctive appeal, but the difficult manufacture is equally discouraging. 
> As an alternative, have you considered a sabot?
>
> -Thatcher
>
>
>
> Jon Noring wrote:
>> Greg wrote:
>>
>>
>>>     Threading the needle shank and having it screw into the needle bar 
>>> is an
>>> option.  I hadn't considered that before, but it would pretty well solve 
>>> the
>>> extra mass problem.  But it would make the needles pretty involved to 
>>> manufacture.  I'll keep it in mind.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, it would be involved if all the needles are threaded by hand or
>> in small numbers, especially at the diameter being considered.
>>
>> It is intriguing to consider using a very fine threaded rod, if even
>> manufactured in the desired material(s). One would have to grind and
>> polish to create the tip geometry.
>>
>> Which brings up the idea that if a needle is to be especially
>> manufactured, one could consider tipping it with a different material
>> that can be specially shaped (such as spherical or elliptical with
>> no sharp edges at all. It is my understanding that most damage to
>> grooves is due to a tip which is no longer smooth. Maybe the tip could
>> be made from a material of the same hardness as the "grit" used in
>> shellac discs (is it corundum?) to wear down the needle.
>>
>> Just thinking outside the box...
>>
>> Jon
>>
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>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
>>
>
>
>
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