To respond, I did point out one actual instance where I was taken advantage of, and this person took advantage of many people, downright stealing rare machines, never paying for them, etc. That's one substantiated case. But where I said (and I am quoting myself here) "I don't think dealers formed a cartel to take advantage of collectors, but there may be a few that have done so." I meant there may be a few dealers who take advantage; I did not mean that those dealers formed a cartel to cheat people. That's pretty preposterous. I should have made a distinction. So my point is A. I DON'T believe there are dealer cartels to cheat collectors and B there may be a few dealers who have cheated people. That exists in many fields of business. For myself I have only met the one, so please don't think I am being 'anti-dealer' in any way. I buy and sell phonos, parts and records myself with fair regularity. John
--- On Sun, 1/23/11, Jack Whelan <jackwhe...@hotmail.com> wrote: From: Jack Whelan <jackwhe...@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Dealers (Not) taking advantance of collectors To: "Phono-L" <phono-l@oldcrank.org> Date: Sunday, January 23, 2011, 12:35 PM I disagree with the generalized statement about “Dealers taking advantage of collectors”. It’s ok to accuse, but to say “.. there may have been a few…” to form a cartel to take advantage of collectors”, should be substantiated. What evidence do you have? This is not a fair statement and it’s still unfair if you say I don’t think so…. I think that bitter taste described from a big time parts dealer in California (wow, a very large net) has caused some loss of objectivity here. It’s not fair and reasonable to describe one bad incident (for whatever reason) and assume others in the dealer group behave that way. We should think about eBay in a more objective way too. First, I think trading on eBay like any other trading venue has risks and rewards. I’m reminded of the old adage about low prices: “The bitterness of poor __________ (fill in the product, service, quality) remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”. If I legitimate phonograph dealer is selling on eBay, if you choose to do business with him/her chances are you’ll be treated better and get a better value. He may in fact require a minimum price as he has to allow not only for his product cost, but inventory risk, assumed warranty or customer satisfaction risk, gross profit, taxes and other costs of doing business, in some cases some level of overhead, even if working out of his house. I think eBay’s low prices often show the big difference (risk/reward) of buying from an opportunistic seller rather than established dealer with staying power. Unfortunately, for some dealers, they’ve had to sell some inventory to get much needed cash in this weakened economy. Fortunate for collectors, this could be shaping up to be a very long “buyer’s market”. I don’t understand why our phonograph dealers get beat up so frequently. Are we becoming more cynical? My experience 99% of the time has been positive. I’m amazed to watch dealers as recent as the Orlando show this week, have to put up with ‘the public’ or collectors that will pick a dealer’s brain for free information, valuable experience, years of knowledge, then dicker with him over a couple of bucks. I’m glad I’m not a dealer because I couldn’t stay positive and happy dealing with some of ungrateful, who say, I can get it cheaper, or your prices are out of line, or I can make or buy that myself for a lot less. If you don’t want to buy, be polite and just walk away and don’t forget to say thank you as it’s good manners and at least you’re giving something back to the dealer that incurred the cost of attending the show. How bad is it? Pretty bad. The Orlando Phonograph Show organizers have for years encouraged collectors to attend the informal, free “Dealer swap” in the parking lot on Friday. I think this is as much fun as the show on Saturday. Now the numbers of people attending the free show (to save a very small $8.00) is growing and taking away from the much needed income from the Saturday show. This isn’t meant to be a “let’s stick up for dealers” message. And it's aimed back at anyone on this board. We need to seriously examine our own behavior in this fun phono-centric hobby. I’ve been a long time collector, researcher, restorer, with a focus on the fun of the hobby. Overall, I’ve benefitted from some financial gains and losses although that hasn’t been my focus. As they say in Las Vegas, you’re losses are what you pay for the fun and entertainment. We can include the benefit of knowledge about a very wide variety of subjects (music, mechanical, wood finishing, electrical, technology, history and much more) and some very good friends! Going forward, we shouldn’t use such a broad brush to paint phonograph dealers in such a negative light. When clubs, museums, or other entities that use conduct some level of fundraising, it seems that the dealers are the first to quietly step and donate. We need a strong dealer base in this hobby. I'd rather pay a dealer a fair price, even pay a premium for his "value added" to help them stay in business. Now, go find a phonograph dealer and give her/him a BIG HUG! Jack > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
