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Well, my fellow countryman... one of my classmates at college had a saying:
"el hombre es un animal de costumbres" (translate it "you gringos" :) - no
offense). And I guess it's most of the time like that... we learn something,
we are never willing to unlearn it. But the truth is, there are at least as
many habits and learnt behaviors as people are there walking in the streets.
So, sometimes, we should be a bit more tolerant to "foreign habits" (unless
we are Micro$oft.. but even so...).
If my intuition is right you must come from the Java/C++ world (my bet is
java 80/20). Maybe you have evaluated the hassles of implementing namespaces
into PHP... and you have concluded it's not possible. Or maybe, that it will
be a "buggy implementation" in the end; like PHP 4 OOP (which doesn't look
like OOP at all). Maybe some old-seasoned gurus in the internals community
have set you apart, or have treated your opinions with contempt (this is
just my assumption, like most of this email's contents). So, you are now
assuming that you won't need PHP, and that it will 'die("alone")' like some
poem of your authorship stated in one of its verses. Yes, after all
developers find out the hassles of namespaces and type hinting in PHP, they
will give up... won't they? (just reading your mind... forgive my arrogance
and continue).
You know... I think I'm about your age (judging for the picture of yours at
phpclasses.org, if that's your picture). Maybe a bit younger, or a bit
older... but just a bit. And the thing is, I heard about two years ago or
so, a big buzz around a "PHP replacement". It was something about trains
(that's the farthest understanding I reached on it... "something about
trains"). I think it was called, railroad, or railway, or diamond on a
train... mmmm... nope, now I remember, it's "ruby on rails" (if you have a
sarcasm detector, use it now). Last time I checked, it was still alive...
arguably in a much more evolved fashion, and some (may I say "few"?) hosting
companies support it now. I don't know much about current statistics, but
I'm tempted to say that:
- There are many more Books on PHP than on RoR
- There are many more PHP hosting offers than RoR's counterpart (even if we
reduce the stats to PHP 5 - just a guess)
- There are many many more websites built on top of PHP than the RoR's
counterpart
- There are many many more extensions, APIs and Frameworks for PHP than for
RoR (actually, RoR IS a framework itself)
- There are many many more PHP developers than RoR developers
In the shared market niche, PHP has beaten java, coldfusion, asp, and perl,
which already existed. PHP has survived .Net rumbling, despite the Vb, C#,
J# or C++ flavors and the awesome Vi$ual $tudio IDE. And despite all the
predictions and prophecies about PHP's doom... it is still here, and will be
here and in the top 5 for at least 10 years. By the time PHP is replaced by
RoR or anything else, I will probably be selling RoR T-Shirts, or be
retired, or be dead (maybe of lung cancer, or cirrhosis, or just because
no-one can live past 120's)...
The point is... "sayonara PHP" means "sayonara most new clients" right now,
sayonara "sustained trend", sayonara "all php-based solutions" and sayonara
"most of the web development world". The facts show that googling for "PHP"
throws about 8,830,000,000 results (this is a bit biased, but the point
still holds)... try to Google for anything else and get similar numbers.
So... why not just saying "sayonara PHP internals" if that's the scenario in
which you've had trouble? (meaning, bad luck, not lack of skill). I've seen
some of your code, and though I don't personally use it, I find it
interesting. And I dont use it because I see no need for it; RIGHT NOW,
most of my company's projects are either small or already work with a
framework of some kind. I think I know why not "just sayonara PHP
internals"... because "I know how this or that should be, I want to turn it
into the way I think it should be... and as I can't do that, because someone
or something prevents me to do so... I feel frustrated and I just give it
up". Again... just (wrongly?) reading your mind.
Now, it's like you couldn't live without namespaces, could you? We've all
being living without namespaces so far... and we've all lived with PHP 4 OOP
so far. And it was even harder for me... I come from the Delphi world and
had previously done some bit of C++ too. So just imagine that when I
switched from Delphi to C++ I was expecting a (SINGLE!) VCL... and a form to
place the UI elements... oh and a "use MyUnit" kind of magical syntax
(instead of include <whatever> or "using namespace std"). But I had to
live with that... and finally I got used to the good and bad of C++
somehow. Then, I started making my first steps into PHP and the web, and
immediately thought similar syntax, supports OOP
will be easy
but I had
to drop and/or rewrite all my first attempt code because it just happened
that the client for which we where working had a hosting of its own with
PHP 4.2 and MySQL 3.23 (there are still some of those archaic hosting
packages over there
I dont need to tell you). So, I just had to get used
to this new OOP of PHP 4 (which is almost no OOP at all).
All in all, my fellow countryman, I guess that unless you have a huge
positive bank account balance, and you drive a BMW (I dont like them
anyway
) youd better off tolerating PHP for this little namespace issue
if you want to stay in business. Unless, of course, that you have an
incoming contract to develop a core system for an NSA mainframe. And if
thats the case please tell them I prepare the most awesome mate
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mate_(beverage)) in the world, and that you
cannot work without it.
I know that, even if you wish to leave PHP forever, youll come back
all
the roads will lead you to it. So, youd better take a smart decision now
than have no other choice in the future (... ok, that was kind of The
Godfathers script, lol).
Enjoy your holidays,
Rob
Andrés Robinet | Lead Developer | BESTPLACE CORPORATION
5100 Bayview Drive 206, Royal Lauderdale Landings, Fort Lauderdale, FL 33308
| TEL 954-607-4207 | FAX 954-337-2695
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | MSN Chat: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | SKYPE:
bestplace | Web: http://www.bestplace.biz | Web: http://www.seo-diy.com
> From: Martin Alterisio [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 2:04 AM
> To: PHP Developers Mailing List; PHP General
> Subject: [PHP] Sayonara PHP
>
> Please let me do a little explanation of the title first. Japanese is
> an
> interesting language where context is vital to the meaning of a word.
> Sayonara usually means a simple "good bye", but within a different
> context
> can mean "we'll probably never meet again".
>
> To understand this mail you'll have to know that I was just another
> user of
> PHP, an user that was probably too eager. I wanted to get more involved
> with
> the development of PHP as I do believe in all the philosophy of open-
> source.
> In the end I found my attempts ended in frustration, but, nevertheless,
> I
> learned a lot in just a few months. I don't want this mail to be one
> where I
> get to display all my frustration, instead I want to leave here all my
> findings, the things I researched, the few things I managed to actually
> code, and mostly the ideas that someone else might find useful.
>
> ---- To those who may want to involve in the php internals ----
>
> For those in the generals list that may ever try to venture in the
> internals
> of PHP, remember that you have to back your point of view with a patch.
> So,
> sit down, remember the old days in college using the c compiler, and
> code
> like a cowboy before trying to promote anything in the internals. It's
> the
> status quo of the PHP development community, as I did learn too late.
>
> ---- Namespaces: function imports ----
>
> Here is the patch to add function imports to 5.3. To be consistent
> constants
> imports have to be added too:
>
> http://martinalterisio.com.ar/php5.3/use.function.v2b.patch
>
> If you don't know what imports are, they are just a way to refer to a
> longer
> name with a shorter name. For example:
>
> <?php
> class MyRowset extends Zend::Db::Table::Rowset::Abstract {
> ...
>
> or with imports:
>
> <?php
> use Zend::Db::Table::Rowset::Abstract as Rowset;
> class MyRowset extends Rowset {
> ...
>
> The use statement behavior currently supports only class names
> aliasing.
> Functions and constants have to referred with full name, although these
> too
> can be namespaced.
>
> ---- Import statement is broken, why, how can be fixed ----
>
> While doing the previous patch I realized that the use statement is
> broken.
> It should generate and error when you try to override an existing name.
> But
> the use statement is handled at compile, where it's unknown if a name
> will
> be overridden or not. What happens is that the error might be triggered
> depending on the conditions and order of compilation. If you have an
> opcode
> cache, this error may not appear until the cache is invalidated.
>
> On a suggestion by Dmitry, which I really don't know if he knew about
> this
> issue with use or not, but, anyway, his idea solved this issue, I made
> this
> patch:
>
> http://martinalterisio.com.ar/php5.3/file.scope.use.patch
>
> With this the use statement is checked only against the names used in
> the
> current file (or namespace if using multiple namespaces per file).
> Since the
> imports only affect the current file, this is more sensible, and the
> issue
> mentioned before disappears.
>
> ---- Name clash and ambiguity issue introduced by namespaces ----
>
> There's another pending issue with namespaces, there's a name clash
> that
> currently goes undetected, and makes static methods partially
> unavailable.
> This is due to the fact that using :: as namespace separator generates
> ambiguity. foo::bar() can refer to the static method bar in class foo,
> or to
> the function bar in the namespace foo. This is an issue to php library
> developers. Someone can inject a namespaced function which overrides
> your
> static method.
>
> One possible solution I approached was to prevent the name clash
> altogether,
> but I found this approach inappropriate for 2 reasons: the performance
> impact is too big; is not consistent with how other name clashes are
> handled
> in php (classes and functions may have the same name).
>
> Another approach, which I believe is the correct one but never got the
> chance to implement in a patch, is to change the order of name
> resolution,
> search first the static method and then the namespaced function, and if
> the
> user wants to refer to the function he can import the function. This
> way
> both remain accessible although the user has to solve the ambiguity.
> Also
> this reduces the impact of adding namespaces on legacy code, since
> there's
> an impact to all static method calls (because first the namespaced
> function
> is searched).
>
> ---- Reducing impact on performance introduced by namespaces ----
>
> I found out that although the philosophy behind the namespaces
> implementation is to do as much as possible in compile time, but much
> is
> pushed to the executor. Those could be solved on compile time. Much can
> be
> optimized changing the name resolution rules. If these become more
> explicit,
> the compiler can discern which is the actual name that's referred to.
> As of
> now, it can be optimized using imports and explicit names, which are
> used as
> alternative notation. In other words, the normal use of namespaces is
> not
> optimal.
>
> There's still one name resolution that seems inevitable that it will
> fall to
> the executor: the ambiguity mentioned earlier between static methods
> and
> namespaced functions. This could be solved by the user if the use
> statement
> allows to also explicitly indicate the type of import: use class X; use
> namespace X; use function X; use const X;
>
> ---- Fix name resolution rules for better coding practices ----
>
> Also, as of now, I'm more than confident when I say that the current
> name
> resolution rules will bring much headaches to users. For starters
> you'll
> have to make a habit of prefixing :: to all internal function calls
> (such as
> ::count, ::strlen, etc). This way will be safer for creating php
> libraries,
> since another user could inject a namespaced function that overrides
> those
> functions. This is because the function call without that prefix will
> try
> first a function in the same namespace then the internal. Also, for
> this
> same reason, using the :: prefix will be faster (since it's solved at
> compile time). And if you want to refer to an element of the current
> namespace, is better to use namespace::
>
> If you don't know about the name resolution rules, check what's written
> in
> the manual:
>
> http://php.net/language.namespaces.rules
>
> What I wanted to implement but will never get the chance is name
> resolution
> rules that aren't context aware and explicit:
>
> foo(); // is always global foo (except if foo is an alias)
> new A(); // is always global class A (except if A is an alias)
> A::B(); // try static method of global class then namespaced function
> (except if A is an alias)
> namespace::foo(); // is always foo() in current namespace
> new namespace::A(); // is always class A in current namespace
> ::foo(); // is always global foo (aliases ignored)
> new ::A(); // is always global class A (aliases ignored)
>
> I think this will improve readability, maintainability and debugging,
> because of its explicitness.
>
> ---- Autoloading issue with namespaces ----
>
> There is also an issue with autoloading and internal names with the
> name
> resolution rules. The autoload has to be the last thing tried,
> therefore
> even if there's a namespaced name that overrides an internal name, it
> won't
> be seen if its loading its subject to autoloading. That's also another
> reason to change the name resolution rules. With the rules I explained
> earlier there won't be this issue with the autoload.
>
> ---- Possible enhancement for autoloading with namespaces ----
>
> Regarding the autoloading, I think there's an enhancement that can be
> achieved with the implementation of namespaces. Consider the
> possibility of
> a namespaced __autoload(). Autoloading in PHP has one important issue:
> as
> the system grows, and external libraries grow, the complexity of the
> autoloading increases. Using the spl autoloader, each library adds its
> autoloading. If you have many libraries, autoload can cost too much. If
> a
> namespaced __autoload() is implemented, this can reduce the impact by
> distributing the autoloading behavior, ie, first use the namespace
> autoload,
> then try the global autoload. A package should know better where its
> classes
> are.
>
> ---- Constrained scope for imports is unpractical ----
>
> When trying to refactor code to use namespaces, as a test, I also found
> that
> having the use statement limited to outer scope is unpractical. One
> necessary addition, which is not very complicated, is to have an extra
> scope
> for use statements, such as imports in a function scope. It's only a
> matter
> of keeping an extra table for the function scope in compile time.
>
> ---- Namespaces keyword issue, it can be solved without taking a
> keyword
> ----
>
> There's still the issue of the keyword taken by the namespaces
> implementation. It doesn't matter if it's "package" or "namespace".
> Both are
> keywords widely used in php (use google code search if you don't
> believe
> me). I know they have tried to remove the need for the keyword, but I
> still
> think there's a way. Consider the following:
>
> <?php
> class Foo::Bar {
> use bla::bla;
> }
> ?>
>
> Instead of:
>
> <?php
> namespace Foo;
> use bla::bla;
> class Bar {
> }
> ?>
>
> In the first there's no need for namespace declaration, it's declared
> with
> the class name. The same can used for functions and consts:
>
> <?php
> function Foo::test() {
> use bla::bla;
> }
> const Foo::CONSTANT = 101;
> ?>
>
> This approach restricts namespaces to classes, functions or constants
> scope.
> If you want to execute code in a namespace you'll have to be in one of
> these
> scopes. But, I think it's a restriction one would pay in favor of all
> those
> libraries that will break because they use the fatal keyword (think of
> all
> the XML related libraries that use "namespace").
>
> Also, using namespace:: or package:: doesn't need to take a keyword
> (think
> of self:: and parent::, they aren't keywords just special names that
> can't
> be used for naming classes).
>
> ---- Namespaces as nested classes? ----
>
> Reading about how the previous implementation of namespaces went down
> the
> drain, one recurring though in some users and developers caught my
> attention. Maybe namespaces and nested classes should be one and the
> same
> thing in php. Considering that many are using classes as namespaces for
> functions, this is not such a illogical approach to the problem. I have
> not
> much considered the technical feasibility of this approach, but one
> that
> would be probably needed is the ability to forward declare members.
> Without
> this, all definition must be clustered.
>
> Example:
> <?php
> final class A { // should be final to have nested classes?
> public class B; // forward declaration
> }
> ?>
>
> other file:
> <?php
> class A::B {
> }
> ?>
>
> I can't say much about this approach. It's just one wild idea.
>
> ---- Type hints, improvements could help drastically improve
> performance
> ----
>
> I thought much about type hints. Right now they are only seen as
> syntactic
> sugar for system designers, and something that reduces performance.
> Actually
> quite the opposite can be achieved, but not with the current
> implementation
> of type hinting. The guys behind flash 9 obtained a 10x improvement in
> performance thanks to type hinting. Actually doing the same with PHP is
> quite sensible, since one of the bottlenecks for performance is the
> zval.
> Knowing before hand that the variable is a native type, a just in time
> native compile can be done to drastically improve performance.
>
> For that to happen first type hinting must be improved. Here are some
> thoughts I shared with another user some time ago:
>
> http://martinalterisio.com.ar/php5.3/php-typehints.txt
>
> ---- Taints ----
>
> Last but not least, I thought about taints. Since PHP6 will remove safe
> mode
> and magic quotes, as far as I know, if nothing else is there to prevent
> users from being users, well PHP6 might be considered too insecure.
> Taints
> should be the solution to this, but approaches copied from other
> languages
> seem not feasible in PHP. Variable level taints are not the way to go:
> not
> much can be added to zval without suffering the consequences, and a
> simple
> model of tainted/not tainted is not safe enough, as there are many
> taints to
> be considered (XSS, SQL injection, HTML injection to say the least).
>
> I think one possible approach to consider is scope taints. Instead of
> tracking taints on variable level, do it on scope level, ie, attach
> taints
> to functions, classes, global scope. Taints should be an arbitrarily
> sized
> list of elements, where the user can also add taints of his own (we
> don't
> know where security holes might appear in the near future, so let's
> leave
> that door open). Taints tracking is to be attached to classes,
> functions or
> global scope (methods use class scope).
>
> When function or class code refer to another scope (function call,
> method
> call, member access, global access) a pollution occurs. In a pollution
> the
> involved scopes become infected with taints from both. The pollution
> operation needs a new opcode that can handle a reference to scope
> either
> statically or by an object reference. For each function/class the user
> has
> to be able to mark taints that infect them, which taints they can
> handle/resist, and which taints they reject. A function/class ignores
> pollution by taints that can handle/resist. If a function/class is
> polluted
> by a taint that rejects, an error occurs. Internal functions should
> define
> also how they are affected by taints, and some defaults taints be
> specified
> for known security issues.
>
> The problem with this approach is that is not an automagical solution.
> It
> requires the user to be conscious of the security issues. If he does
> nothing
> about it an error occurs, but he can mark the scope as one that handles
> the
> taint and still do nothing about it.
>
> There's two alternatives to how keep track of taints:
> 1) keep a list of taints that pollute the scope
> 2) keep a list of taints that DO NOT pollute the scope
>
> The second alternative is harder to understand. It assumes that any
> scope
> cannot be trusted by nature. Instead of adding threats, you remove
> threats.
> I think this approach is more secure.
>
> ---- The end ----
>
> Well that wraps it all, I think. That's as much as I can download from
> my
> brain which is related to PHP. Do whatever you want with all this, even
> the
> spam folder is fine.
>
> Anyway, it's been fun, and I learned a lot.
> My thanks to everyone that ever gave a hand.
>
> A former PHP user says to you all:
>
> Sayonara PHP
>
> P.S.: Please be understanding if I don't answer replies to this email.
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