On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 10:53 AM, Daniel Kolbo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
> Struan Donald wrote:
>
> > * at 17/04 16:30 -0500 Daniel Kolbo said:
> >
> >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > I am writing a PHP script for a local application (not web/html
> > > based). My script is taking a longer time to execute than I want. The
> > > source code is a few thousand lines, so I will spare you all this
> > > level of detail.
> > >
> > > I prefer to write in PHP because that is what I know best. However, I
> do not think there is anything inherent with my script that requires PHP
> over C/C++/C#.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > I think this points to an answer. If you're not too familiar with one
> > of the compiled languages then producing code that runs faster than
> > your current PHP implementation is a tall order. PHP, like most
> > scripting languages, is compiled into an internal format as a first
> > step and it's this that's then run. A lot of effort has gone into
> > making this pretty fast and by deciding to rewrite in a compiled
> > language you are betting that the C code, or whatever, you write will
> > be faster. Given the effort I imagine translating a few thousand
> > lines of PHP into one of the languages you name is likely to be
> > significant you'd want to be sure of winning that bet.
> >
> >
> >
> > > If I wrote the console application in a c language (and compiled) would
> one expect to see any improvements in performance? If so, how much
> improvement could one expect (in general)?
> > >
> > >
> >
> > How long will it take you to convert the program? How much more time
> > will you spend on support and bugfixing?
> >
> >
> >
> > > I assume because php is not compiled that this real time interpretation
> of the script by the zend engine must take some time. This is why I am
> thinking about rewriting my whole script in a C language. But before I
> begin that ordeal, i wanted to ask the community for their opinions. If you
> think using a c language would suit me well, what language would you
> recommend?
> > >
> > >
> >
> > It's not real time interpretation. It's a one time parse and compile
> > when the script starts and then it runs the internal bytecode. If you
> > have APC, or some other sort of caching mechanism installed then part
> > of the speed up comes from caching the bytecode and saving on the
> > initial parse and compile phase.
> >
> > As to what language then if you want to go ahead and do this you
> > should pick the one you know best. If you don't know any of them that
> > well then I really think that your time would be better spent on
> > optimising the existing PHP code first. Are you sure it's running as
> > fast as it can? Do you know where it's slow?
> >
> > Rewriting it in another language really is the 50 pound lump hammer
> > solution to the problem if you've not tried anything else to speed it
> > up.
> >
> >
> >
> > > My google and mail archive searching for this yielded mainly PHP for web
> apps, so I am asking all of you.
> > >
> > > My main question is, how much of an improvement in performance will one
> see by using a compiled version of an application versus using a scripted
> version of an application?
> > >
> > > I looked at PHP's bcompiler, but the documentation is minimal so I am
> hesitant to dig much deeper into that, unless someone strongly suggests
> otherwise.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > A quick look at the docs tells me that all that bcompiler will do is
> > save you the initial parse and compile phase and not speed up the
> > execution of the code.
> >
> > The one thing you don't say is exactly how long is too long? Is it
> > hours or minutes? If it's seconds then consider, as someone has
> > suggested elsewhere in the thread, looking at APC as that should cut
> > down the start up time of the script.
> >
> > HTH and apologies if none of this is news to you.
> >
> > Struan
> >
> >
> >
>
> You are correct in that I want to be pretty sure I win the bet, before
> translating all the code. The code really isn't that complicated, so I
> think I am capable of translating it. Just a bunch of pretty small
> functions. The code is a simulation-model type of program, so the
> bottleneck in the code is the "looping". I know the exact function that
> takes up 86% of the time. I have tried to rewrite this function from
> different approaches. The bottom line is "work" needs to be done, and a lot
> of it. I really can't think of any other ways to improve the "logic" of the
> code at this time. Perhaps there are different methods I could be using to
> speed up execution. Again, I think the source of the issue is looping.
>
> Here is the function that takes 86% of the time...This function is called
> 500,000,000 times with different parameters ($arr and $arr2) (which I cannot
> predict their values just their size).
>
> ========= C O D E ===S T AR T ========
> //this function is essentially a search and remove function for a nested
> array
>
> foreach ($arr as $key => $value) {
> //count($arr) == 3
> foreach ($value as $key2 => $value2) {
> //0<=count($value) <=1000
> foreach($arr2 as $value3) {
> //count($arr2) == 2
> if (in_array($value3, $value2)) {
> unset($arr[$key][$key2]);
> break;
> }
> }
> }
>
> ========= C O D E ===E N D ========
>
> So essentially 3 foreach nested, invoking in_array(), and unset().
> I rewrote the above code by making $arr a 1 dimensional array and 'storing'
> the nested key values as a string index with delimiter, so that I could
> unset the original nested $arr by exploding this index...i'll just show the
> code.
>
> ========= C O D E 2 ==== S T A R T=======
> //first i prepare $arr
>
> function CompressRay($some_nested_ray, $delimiter = "|") {
> //not really compression just flattens the array
> //returns an array of string of key_strings and the final value
> $answer_ray = array();
> foreach ($some_nested_ray as $key => $value) {
> $key_string = (string)$key.$delimiter;
> if (is_array($value)) {
> $compressed_sub_ray = CompressRay($value, $delimiter);
> //echo "Compressed Sub is \n";
> //print_r($compressed_sub_ray);
> foreach ($compressed_sub_ray as $sub_key_string => $final_value)
> {
> $answer_ray[$key_string.$sub_key_string] = $final_value;
> }
> }else {
> $answer_ray[substr($key_string,0,-1)] = $value;
> }
> }
> return $answer_ray;
> }
>
> $arr['compressed'] = CompressRay($arr);
> //this part happens quickly, no worries so far
>
> //then i call the below procedure oh, about 500,000,000 times
>
> foreach ($arr2 as $value3) {
> $key_strings = array_keys($arr['compressed'], $value3);
> foreach ($key_strings as $key_string) {
> $key_sequence = explode("|",$key_string);
> unset($all_vs_holes[$key_sequence[0]][$key_sequence[1]]);
> $upto_hole = substr($key_string,0,-2);
> unset($arr['compressed'][$upto_hole."|0"]);
> //to keep the compressed archive accurate
> unset($arr['compressed'][$upto_hole."|1"]);
> //to keep the compressed archive accurate
> }
> }
>
> ========= C O D E 2 ==== E N D=======
>
> to my surprise code2 was actually slower, twice as slow. I started
> thinking maybe by passing the relatively large $arr by value 500 million
> times was taking up a lot of time...but some bench mark testing I did,
> actually didn't show that much improvement (if any) by passing a large array
> by reference. This seemed counterintuitive to me, and b/c i would have to
> make a duplicate copy of $arr if i did pass by reference it seemed like
> little gain would come of it.
>
> Like I said, some work has to be done...these iterations have to be
> performed.
> By long time, i am speaking about days. I am not entirely convinced that
> by making minor optimization changes to the particular syntax or methods
> invoked will yield any order of magnitude difference. The order of
> magnitude difference I need, (i think) must come from changing actual logic
> of the code - which is difficult to do in an almost simple iteration
> procedure. An analogy, it doesn't matter if the code is lance armstrong or
> some big NFL lineman, they are running 100,000 back to back marathons and
> are going to get tired and start crawling either way.
>
> This is why i feel i am up against a brick wall, and must start looking for
> a language that runs a bit faster. Some preliminary looping of 1 billion
> iterations in C++ vs. PHP has yielded substantial difference...like 10^4
> magnitude difference in time. This makes me feel like my bet is justified
> in translating the code.
>
> I am going to miss php ;(
>
> As I know the bottleneck is in the actual execution of the code, the APC
> and bcompiler won't offer much gain, thanks for the consideration and
> looking into those.
>
> At this point some of you may encourage me to go to C++ so i stop with this
> question...but I'd like to hear if you all agree that perhaps it is time to
> pull out the 50 lbp lump hammer?
>
> Thanks,
> Dan K
>
>
Like I said before, since you know that most of your time is in a
specific part of your script, just move that function into a custom
extension written in c/c++.
http://talks.php.net/show/extending-php-apachecon2003/0
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