On Jan 3, 2013 6:19 PM, "Philip Olson" <phi...@roshambo.org> wrote: > > > On Jan 3, 2013, at 9:26 AM, Sherif Ramadan wrote: > > > On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 12:04 AM, Philip Olson <phi...@roshambo.org> wrote: > > > >> > >> Greetings all, > >> > >> Also, I reckon the main PHP tutorial should get someone started but not > >> worry > >> about all of the minor details along the way. An ideal tutorial might, > >> let's > >> say, allow someone to create a nice address book app or TODO manager, but > >> not > >> a framework. Said TODO manager should probably include JavaScript, although > >> how far php.net should go with these related topics (e.g., CSS) is > >> difficult > >> to answer. Not very far, I guess. > >> > > > > There is a lot of foundation knowledge required to build and entire site > > from scratch. > > > > While I like the idea of having a tutorial on php.net that teaches you how > > to build something that might actually be useful, I fear that it may prove > > more useless than the existing tutorial to a beginner. My reasoning behind > > this comes from past experience. When I first started learning PHP (back > > when I was still on this ancient technology called dialup) I wasn't in the > > least bit interested to read a tutorial that showed me how to build a > > specific application. I was purely interested in finding the information I > > needed to get done what I needed done at that time. PHP is a great language > > where you can just take an idea you have in your head and start banging out > > code to see if it works. We should be teaching beginners things like basic > > syntax, operators, data types, looping constructs, conditional constructs, > > etc... Without knowing how this stuff works first they don't stand much of > > a chance when they want to add a new feature to this address book they > > built. I find that once a beginner starts seeing results are they > > immediately excited and once they see their code break they are instantly > > discouraged. > > > > To be more helpful I propose we revamp the tutorial to explain real world > > concepts that apply to learning things like string syntax, operator > > precedence, recursion, variable scope, and handling things like building a > > dynamic ordered/unordered list in HTML using a foreach loop (which is a > > pretty common beginner problem). Applying these fundamental concepts of > > writing structured code in real life scenarios is going to be far more > > beneficial to a beginner than learning HTML/CSS (in my own very modest > > opinion). > > > > With that said I'm not opposed to adding multiple tutorials to cover such > > subjects as how to build an address book or TODO list, etc… > > I think it would be both. The tutorial wouldn't be about making an > app like a TODO manager or address book, but the examples would > magically end up creating one as an application includes all of the > things you mention like loops, data types, basic syntax, …. So a > hybrid, of sorts. A tutorial with a focus.
I agree with this, and it certainly gets my vote. > > Regards, > Philip > > Thanks, Mike (mikemike on IRC)
