> On Feb. 10, 2015, 11:50 p.m., Thomas Pfeiffer wrote: > > Basic rule from design for safety: Don't use a warning if you can prevent > > the dangerous action completely. > > In this case that means: Setting the brightness to zero should only be > > possible via keyboard, because that ensures recoverability. > > > > Don't display any warning. Instead, when the slider reaches the minimum, > > display a hint saying "To prevent switching off the screen by accident, > > setting the brightness lower than [sensible value]% is only possible using > > the keyboard". > > > > That way, it's not possible to maneuver yourself in an unrecoverable > > position but people who like to switch off their screen backlight can still > > do so using the keyboard. And we don't need to show a scary warning, but a > > helpful hint instead. > > Emmanuel Pescosta wrote: > What about adding an option to "Adcanced Power Management Settings" that > allows the user to change between safe/full screen brightness range (default: > safe, minimum is 5% of the hw range)? > > [x] Use the full screen brightness range provided by your hardware > (Warning: 0% may turn your screen off) > > So the warning in the widget can be avoided and the default behavior is > the same as on most other operating systems (0% != screen off). > > My 2 cents ;) > > Martin Klapetek wrote: > In my opinion, adding (yet another) option just complicates things more. > > > same as on most other operating systems (0% != screen off). > > I can't speak for Windows, but my OS X definitely turns screen off when > you go to 0%. > > Martin Klapetek wrote: > Oh now I can speak for Windows :) --> > https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/ff569755%28v=vs.85%29.aspx > --> "Brightness levels are represented as single-byte values in the range > from zero to 100 where zero is off and 100 is the maximum brightness that a > laptop computer supports [...] however, a laptop computer is not required to > support a level of zero.". So it's fully hardware/driver dependent, just like > it is on Linux. > > Emmanuel Pescosta wrote: > Just tested it on Windows: Turning off the screen by only using the > brightness slider or the brightness buttons doesn't work, the dedicated > screen on/off button is the only way to turn it off (http://goo.gl/3CLDGP > Fn+F6) > > Martin Klapetek wrote: > Yes, which matches what I said above about Windows. Some drivers on Linux > also don't turn backlight off when you set 0%. > > Emmanuel Pescosta wrote: > 0% means backlight off on this notebook, but the user interface doesn't > allow to turn it off on Windows (maybe they check if a screen off/on key is > available?) > When I test it with Powerdevil, then the screen turns off when I drag the > slider to 0%. > > So there is a difference between 0% on the UI and 0% on the hardware side > on Windows. > > Heiko Tietze wrote: > I'd like to suppport Thomas position be mentioning Android's behaviour: > you switch off the backlight by hardware key but adjust the setting > differently per slider. Two use cases, two ways of interaction. > > If we only could discuss all settings in such a depth... ;-) > > Martin Klapetek wrote: > I really don't think you can compare laptops and (touch)phones. That's > apples (but not only;) and oranges. > > Thomas Pfeiffer wrote: > Martin: Does OS-X really allow to turn the screen off by pushing the > brightness slider to zero? With the only way to turn it back on being via > hardware keys? Even if they do, though, there is still a difference: Apple > _knows_ for a fact that all devices (legally) running OS X have those > hardware buttons. We can't be sure. > > Really, it's a simple logic: Don't allow the user to make a change that > can't be reversed by the same means. Therefore, don't allow to switch off the > screen via the slider. If a laptop has brightness keys, users can switch the > screen off using those keys, and switch it back on using the same keys. > > And no, we don't need an expert setting to still allow sliding to off. I > simply cannot believe that any user would be seriously pissed off because > they need to use the keyboard to turn off their screen. It's not difficult. > > We can discuss that as long as you guys want, but I won't back down on > basic usability principles. > > Martin Klapetek wrote: > > Martin: Does OS-X really allow to turn the screen off by pushing the > brightness slider to zero? > > Yes. But as you say, this will *always* work (I'm not even sure if they > have a slider at all). > > > Really, it's a simple logic: Don't allow the user to make a change that > can't be reversed by the same means. Therefore, don't allow to switch off the > screen via the slider. > > Yes, I totally agree with that (I was also supporting this change all > along). > > > We can discuss that as long as you guys want, but I won't back down on > basic usability principles. > > I am with you on this. I just said "use a warning" and meant actually the > hint you meant. My only problem was the suggestion to disallow turning > backlight off by using the keys to set 0% (or disallow setting to 0% with > keys).
Ah yes sorry, apparently I didn't make it clear that you had already convinced me wrt/ keyboard anyway ;) Looks like we're all on the same page now, happy family again :) - Thomas ----------------------------------------------------------- This is an automatically generated e-mail. To reply, visit: https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/122505/#review75824 ----------------------------------------------------------- On Feb. 9, 2015, 10:25 p.m., Kai Uwe Broulik wrote: > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > This is an automatically generated e-mail. To reply, visit: > https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/122505/ > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > (Updated Feb. 9, 2015, 10:25 p.m.) > > > Review request for Plasma and KDE Usability. > > > Repository: plasma-workspace > > > Description > ------- > > Some graphics drivers, notably Intel, turn off the backlight completely when > brightness reached zero, which is also in the spec (0 = off, 1 = very dim) > but imho that's unexpected. To prevent the user from accidentally turnign the > screen off, especially when keyboard brightness controls don't work, which > sadly still happens quite often, the slider breaks free from the user's drag > (by becoming disable for two (perhaps 1 is enough?) seconds, so we also catch > the mouse wheel case) and displays a warning (which stays there until screen > brightness is dialed up again). > > > Diffs > ----- > > applets/batterymonitor/package/contents/ui/BrightnessItem.qml 546ab58 > applets/batterymonitor/package/contents/ui/PopupDialog.qml a2acf31 > > Diff: https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/122505/diff/ > > > Testing > ------- > > Works pretty well, I just realized I forgot the mousewheel-on-trayicon case. > Also, I'm open to wording suggestions since it sounds more like "we suck, > sorry about that". (Note in the screenshot I used the mouse wheel, hence the > displayed 4% rather than 5) > > > File Attachments > ---------------- > > Screenshot > > https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/media/uploaded/files/2015/02/09/8b585088-e33e-4862-9c46-207d06f566f1__dimwarning.png > > > Thanks, > > Kai Uwe Broulik > >
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