> On März 22, 2015, 8:28 nachm., Kai Uwe Broulik wrote: > > Sorry for being late to the party: > > > > UX issues I have with that implementation: > > - No transition, the windows just disappear (would be cool to have them > > slide out of the screen or have them stay at the edges of the screen like > > OSX does it, but that's visuals) > > - Cannot access plasmoid or containment config windows (or GHNS in widget > > explorer) - they don't appear in that mode, nor do they exit it > > - KRunner exits this mode, imho KRunner should be usable from there > > (usability?) > > - Panels inaccessible (though usability even proposed hiding them in > > Dashboard mode, so..) > > > > Other than that this would 100% replace my Dashboard usecase, so +1 for the > > overall idea. > > > > Usability team, ping? > > Thomas Lübking wrote: > - No transition > Definitively, but another patch (we'll have to wire up a showingDesktop > signal and then script something nicely ;-) > > - Cannot access plasmoid or containment config windows > We'll have to require them to either be transient for the desktop or set > the keepAbove flag (and interpret that in layers.cpp) to still keep "normal" > docks (panels) hidden > > - KRunner exits this mode > Afaics that's a general (re-occurring ;-) "problem" w/ krunner, unrelated > to this patch. > Non-dock type windows that are not in the desktop group break the mode. > This applies because krunner is another process than plasmashell (afair the > KDE3 runner was part of kdesktop) > => KRunner must either become a dock-type (and keepabove or transient) > or move itself into the desktops window group (be transient for it or have > the same WM_CLIENT_LEADER) > > However, I put "problem" in quotation marks, because that rather seems > the minimize-all (aka. "you wanted to switch the VD" ;-) case of cleaning up > the workspace (for the very next action will break the mode anyway when you > run a new application)?? > > - Panels inaccessible > See above - we can either make dock-type windows (mostly panels) > unconditionally visible or require them to setup a special condition > (transient for desktop or keep above) > > The question on what to do here is also the question mostly asked by this > RR =) > The global behavior (as long as we don't require transiency/keepabove > hints from "some" panels) is very easy to adjust, though. > > @Usability team, please also see my very first comment for more > information on layer control. > > kdeuser 56 wrote: > My use case for the dashboard was mainly, when I had a lot of windows and > I wanted to customize plasma: Simply trigger dashboard and cutsomize the > Desktop, othwerwise, you would have to use "Show Desktop" or change to an > empty workspace. I really liked what we had in plasma5 till now, because the > panels were accessible, why wouldn't they be? What speaks against the panels? > They are accesible all the time, why wouldn't that be in dashboard mode too? > When the panels are inacessible, I have to treat cutsomization (my main use > case), seperately for widgets and panels, something I find an unnecessary > barrier. If my opinion is worth anything here, I would vote for accessible > panels, dimmed or not. > On another note: even when you do not customize stuff, you use the > dashboard/show desktop for accessing information on the workspace. Now I > trigger dashboard, but want to have a look at a notificaiton too, while I am > for example reading my plasma notes. Now I would have to exit the dashboard > and reenter it, because the panels are not accessible. I don't think the > panels ever distract that much, they should be made inaccessible. > > Thomas Pfeiffer wrote: > Sorry for keeping you waiting for so long. I was very busy recently, and > apparently I'm the only one who is currently active on the usability list. So > here goes: > > * Transition: We all agree that we need a transition, but since Thomas > said it will be another patch, we won't discuss it here further (just keep it > in mind) > * Config windows: I'm still for a separate "workspace configuration mode" > (Andrew and I have talked about our plans for that to some Plasma devs, but > we yet have to properly introduce our ideas) which would make it unnecessary > to show config dialogs on the dashboard (and if we do have a separate mode, > I'd indeed vote for _not_ showing them in the dashboard). However, as long as > there is no separate config mode, I agree with kdeuser56 that the dashboard > is probably the best place available to configure the workspace and therefore > config dialogs should be visible there. Just please don't put too much effort > into this as it might become obsolete later. > * Panels: I'm a bit torn here. The thing is that we have not defined what > the dashboard is supposed to be used for. If it is only for glancing at or > quickly interacting with desktop widgets, then panels would only be > distracting. If it is for interacting with the workspace in general, then of > course panels should be accessible. One argument against showing panels would > be that clicking on a window in the task switcher would break the mode (the > window should not go below the dashboard, as that would be inconsistent with > switching via alt-tab). Still, I see valid arguments for both alternatives, > so I'll leave that to you. Just make sure that either panels are fully > visible and can be interacted with, or are hidden/dimmed/faded and cannot be > interacted with, as any mix of the two would be confusing. > * Layer: In contrast to what I said here ( > https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=338534 ), I now think that "always on > top" windows should be kept above the dashboard, if we want to encourage the > user's mental model of "the desktop as basically just another window, which > we would with the tab-switching. In general, we should try to keep that > mental model in mind when making decisions in this area. > * KRunner: Since KRunner is a Plasma user's "life-line", it has to be > always accessible. Having it break the dashboard mode would probably feel > weird, as it's something one often invokes on the fly, without wanting to > leave the current context. Of course if one uses it to start a new GUI > application, then that breaks the dashboard mode, which is okay. This is by > far not KRunner's only use, though. > > I hope I was able to address all questions. If not, feel free to point > any questions that are still open out to me.
There're meanwhile even *two* transitions in this patch series ;-) * Layer: keepAbove *always* on top of the "deskboard" or conditionally (ie. for the latter you'd still be able to alt+tab them above or below) * We *will* require a hint on krunner, ideally set it transient for the desktop window. -> Vishesh, does krunner already link kwindowsystem (since that'll likely be required to find the desktop WId, QDesktopWidget is the root wid) * Other panels: I'd suggest to leave that to the client? If a panel is set keepabove, it would remain shown, otherwise not?!? - Thomas ----------------------------------------------------------- This is an automatically generated e-mail. To reply, visit: https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/122679/#review77926 ----------------------------------------------------------- On März 30, 2015, 9:06 nachm., Thomas Lübking wrote: > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > This is an automatically generated e-mail. To reply, visit: > https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/122679/ > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > (Updated März 30, 2015, 9:06 nachm.) > > > Review request for kwin, Plasma, KDE Usability, Martin Gräßlin, and Marco > Martin. > > > Bugs: 344083 > https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=344083 > > > Repository: kwin > > > Description > ------- > > commit b4e3a736c3643179b5b4ea73f7706918a03483fe > Author: Thomas Lübking > Date: Mon Mar 30 11:38:54 2015 +0200 > > add eyeOnScreen effect > > commit 4aaeeda8fbebded0e915b39a54092c586de179ce > Author: Thomas Lübking > Date: Mon Mar 30 11:38:38 2015 +0200 > > support gaussian curve and animationEnded signal in ScriptedEffect > > > commit a1e7f1a2ccefffd42e360bbaae48ecdfaa5b1ff4 > > > Author: Thomas Lübking > > Date: Sun Mar 29 00:15:57 2015 +0100 > > > > Add effect to move windows to corners on showing the desktop > > > commit d92c46e96fe9fb13403b859c5e334b618d45d268 > > > Author: Thomas Lübking > > Date: Sun Mar 29 00:15:22 2015 +0100 > > > Remove AnimationData wrapper around metadata. Allow to set metadata > directly in animation objects > > > commit ed38cf37b26aa15d77c5b73734581055be234233 > > > Author: Thomas Lübking > > Date: Sun Mar 29 00:13:41 2015 +0100 > > > > make window elevation scriptable > > > commit c297fd5c55ba862151265e4b8b65b5ffe6048a8d > > > Author: Thomas Lübking > > Date: Sun Mar 29 00:12:21 2015 +0100 > > > > forward showingDesktop signal to effects > > > commit 570a92331f3691c1fb2affa4f853c75d6062f7e3 > > > Author: Thomas Lübking > > Date: Sun Mar 29 00:08:32 2015 +0100 > > > emit signal when showingDesktop changes > > > commit a1b80b4e310b2c75b4d9811af1d23f699bc658b5 > Author: Thomas Lübking > Date: Sun Feb 22 16:41:45 2015 +0100 > > add "MinimizeAll" script > > to compensate withdrawn core feature (which > though has been hidden so far) > > commit 983efb916e282d2263b4abcc92f714c06b3bfcc1 > Author: Thomas Lübking > Date: Wed Feb 18 02:09:00 2015 +0100 > > break showingDesktop w/ tabbox/PW/DG > > This is now crucial, because while before (the minimized) windows were > conditionally shown, but are now always behind the desktop. > Also, it makes the tabbox more consistent. > > commit ff531c8e2adc407da00bef88f18d03e3829b25fa > Author: Thomas Lübking > Date: Wed Feb 18 01:37:45 2015 +0100 > > implement showingDesktop by raising the desktop window > > commit 190a0cc022d9935d658a6218d0b3caa79b038563 > Author: Thomas Lübking > Date: Wed Feb 18 00:09:46 2015 +0100 > > remove secret showDesktopIsMinimizeAll feature > > > Diffs > ----- > > client.h 6b947fe > client.cpp b6af2fa > effects.h ae71d61 > effects.cpp 20a8773 > effects/CMakeLists.txt 98a9349 > effects/badbadwindows/CMakeLists.txt PRE-CREATION > effects/badbadwindows/package/CMakeLists.txt PRE-CREATION > effects/badbadwindows/package/contents/code/main.js PRE-CREATION > effects/badbadwindows/package/metadata.desktop PRE-CREATION > effects/desktopgrid/desktopgrid.cpp 97cb2a3 > effects/eyeonscreen/CMakeLists.txt PRE-CREATION > effects/eyeonscreen/package/CMakeLists.txt PRE-CREATION > effects/eyeonscreen/package/contents/code/main.js PRE-CREATION > effects/eyeonscreen/package/metadata.desktop PRE-CREATION > effects/presentwindows/presentwindows.cpp 7a62ec0 > kwin.kcfg 80ca365 > layers.cpp ae08207 > libkwineffects/kwineffects.h b77e461 > manage.cpp 8b1a2ee > options.h 67e5868 > options.cpp cdaa851 > scripting/scriptedeffect.h 39af241 > scripting/scriptedeffect.cpp ba646f6 > scripts/CMakeLists.txt 34dedb7 > scripts/minimizeall/contents/code/main.js PRE-CREATION > scripts/minimizeall/metadata.desktop PRE-CREATION > tabbox/tabbox.cpp 4a00e4b > workspace.h 16fa351 > workspace.cpp f9c1ab1 > > Diff: https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/122679/diff/ > > > Testing > ------- > > * The script (though mostly in KWin4, trouble w/ ksycoca5...) > * Obviously the supersecret key is now dead ;-) > * Been playing around with alternate desktop showing. > > > Thanks, > > Thomas Lübking > >
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