Dnia czwartek, 17 lipca 2008, Tomasz Pala napisał: > On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 23:07:38 +0200, Mariusz Mazur wrote: > > Over the years I've grown quite tired of a lot of cases where PLD tries > > to be > > I'm tired too but it is a must have for reliable system.
It's not a reliable system when any application can fail because it either expects something that all of the other distros, except us, have (sh -> bash) or we've done something to it without having much clue about original developers' reasons for a particular choice (ripping out internal versions of various libs). > > smarter then upstream and/or other distros and does something completely > > insignificant differently which results in having to patch up perfectly > > working apps. > > These 'perfectly working apps' used to be security holes, functionality > breakers etc. If they in fact are, to the extent we're not as much of security zealots as, say, openbsd, it's obviously better to patch them. Both the python and /bin/sh cases don't fall under any of the above. Let's try to be specific. > > On the one hand I've got a lot of stuff to make my life easier > > (hey, vserver out of the box!) and on the other there are those little > > pesky oddities. > > If you don't value being The Right Way just use some FC, Debian, Ubuntu > or other. PLD also has The Right Way, the Have It Just Work rule. Non-interactive rpm installations, sane and working out-of-the-box default configs, a lot of %post scripts to make sure everything's integrated, etc, etc. Going against de facto standards (/bin/sh) and actual standards (python -- I'm quite sure it's authors never meant for it to be distributed the way we do) both break the rule. > > (Others would be e.g. /bin/sh) > > Yeah, let's use fucked up bash. The next step would be to use FC spec > files and simple package - * instead of file listings in subpackages. > The end of this road is even much simplier - ./configure; make; make > install. The only part where we actually prefer not to have bash is where our own (made in-house) scripts are concerned. All other scripts should be run with what their authors expected, and that's bash (the Have It Just Work rule). The solution is quite trivial -- have our scripts invoke pdksh directly and leave bash under /bin/sh. Bottom line is -- we're quite an invasive distro anyway, as far as patching apps goes, so it's in our best interest to get rid of those modifications that have no real life value and are only a pain in the ass. I'd urge the Th RM (well, Ti too ;) to Do The Right Thing wrt to both python and sh/bash. If it's really an unpopular decision, it'll get overruled in CDG. And if not, we'll have a few less quirks to irritate us. -- Judge others by their intentions and yourself by your results. Guy Kawasaki Education is an admirable thing, but it is well to remember from time to time that nothing that is worth knowing can be taught. Oscar Wilde _______________________________________________ pld-devel-en mailing list pld-devel-en@lists.pld-linux.org http://lists.pld-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/pld-devel-en