thank yout for the advice. On Sat, Aug 27, 2022 at 9:10 AM James Mcphee via PLUG-discuss < plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
> Oh sorry, I must have buried the lead. I use systemd linux systems for my > desktopy desktops (ubuntu and fedora mostly). Aka, the ones i check email, > browse the web, play games on. For my developery desktops I do not use > systemd, but that is born of pure frustration and malding. > > On Sat, Aug 27, 2022 at 6:05 AM Michael via PLUG-discuss < > plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: > >> So do you recommend system d for a desktop? It assms you don't and then >> you do. >> >> On Sat, Aug 27, 2022 at 8:44 AM James Mcphee via PLUG-discuss < >> plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: >> >>> two main reasons. >>> >>> one is ideological. the way systemd was put into the community rubbed a >>> lot of people the wrong way. i won't get into the details, you can google >>> for that whole war. no sense bringing it up again. >>> >>> two is simplicity. systemd is now over a million lines of code. to put >>> that into perspective, going by the mythical man month numbers, a single >>> good programmer can average understanding 2 pages of code a day in a >>> complex codebase. That's 50 lines of code per day. from the same source, >>> developers produce roughly 10 lines of code per day on average. now, >>> there's a lot of give around these numbers, but you can get some idea of >>> the scale of trying to get a handle on it if there's a bug you need to work >>> with. >>> >>> a couple of bugs i've had to deal with in recent memory, extended udp >>> handling in resolved and console output (which was actually correct to >>> standard in systemd, but everyone had worked around the previous bug and >>> that workaround wasn't compatible with the systemd implementation). >>> neither of these were minor. the resolved bug prevented adoption of dnssec >>> and the console thing required manual intervention of containers using it >>> (docker, k8s, etc). i don't know if these things have been resolved either >>> in systemd or the container systems. the problems in question forced a >>> rearchitecture of our projects as fixes were not going to be fast enough >>> and we haven't revisited them. for the resolved issue, the systemd project >>> lead flat out said it wasn't a priority. for the container/console issue, >>> you have to go back in time when the docker team wore "no, i will not merge >>> your systemd patches into our codebase" tshirts to conventions. >>> >>> in conclusion, i use systemd for servers, desktops, and vms. I find it >>> quite reliable in most cases. i think it does a better job with login, >>> hal, service dependency, and mtab than the older system. for my use case >>> of containers, it is entirely unnecessary and nothing but a headache. for >>> my developer station, i mald quite enough and have no patience left to deal >>> with it when it inevitably creates issues (oh, no for this thing you need >>> to put your proxy settings 3 layers of abstraction down over here with this >>> particular format) and tend to use the simplest system possible. >>> >>> On Sat, Aug 27, 2022 at 4:38 AM Michael via PLUG-discuss < >>> plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Why would u not want system d? >>>> >>>> On Sat, Aug 27, 2022 at 4:15 AM Steve Litt via PLUG-discuss < >>>> plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Fri, 2022-08-26 at 17:50 -0700, T. Zack Crawford via PLUG-discuss >>>>> wrote: >>>>> > I would recommend not Manjaro because it's just a less-good arch >>>>> linux. >>>>> > I use Arch Linux. Depends what you're looking for, though. >>>>> >>>>> Or, Artix could be used in order to get the benefits of Arch without >>>>> systemd. >>>>> >>>>> SteveT >>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>> >>>> -- >>>> :-)~MIKE~(-: >>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> James McPhee >>> jmc...@gmail.com >>> --------------------------------------------------- >>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> >> >> >> -- >> :-)~MIKE~(-: >> --------------------------------------------------- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > > -- > James McPhee > jmc...@gmail.com > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- :-)~MIKE~(-:
--------------------------------------------------- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
