If you are referring to the courts that is one thing the government needs to do.
Water Sewer Trash pickup Streets Police Fire Standing Army and one or two other things. Everything else needs to be removed from the government. Using the courts to resolve a dispute is differently from the government providing for our business needs. Free enterprise. Do you think as a small business owner I am afforded any protection under the law. Not happening. Only the big guys get help from the government. I really have to get a few things done so i will sing off for now. Keep in mind I'm for small government and a free market. ------------------------ Keith Smith --- On Sat, 8/1/09, Joshua Zeidner <jjzeid...@gmail.com> wrote: > From: Joshua Zeidner <jjzeid...@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: Geek/Tech/Entrepreneur Stuff to do in PHX > To: "Main PLUG discussion list" <plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us> > Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 8:13 PM > and who enforces your > contracts, Keith? > > -jmz > > On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 8:12 PM, keith smith<klsmith2...@yahoo.com> > wrote: > > > > > > Only problem is you have government in business. > > > > ------------------------ > > Keith Smith > > > > > > --- On Sat, 8/1/09, Lyle Tuttle <l.tut...@cox.net> > wrote: > > > >> From: Lyle Tuttle <l.tut...@cox.net> > >> Subject: Re: Geek/Tech/Entrepreneur Stuff to do in > PHX > >> To: "Main PLUG discussion list" <plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us> > >> Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 7:58 PM > >> > >> > >> The city of Surprise has moved into a new > >> city hall complex, > >> and are turning the old offices / building into a > >> "start-up" or > >> incubator for new or emerging businesses. > >> > >> > >> lyle tuttle > >> > >> > >> At 07:50 PM 8/1/2009, you wrote: > >> > >> On Sat, Aug 1, > >> 2009 at 6:50 PM, > >> keith smith<klsmith2...@yahoo.com> > wrote: > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > I think what is really missing from this > equation is > >> mentoring and > >> training. > >> > >> > >> what I would like to see is some real support > from > >> AZ government > >> to > >> > >> help make tech companies feel welcome here. > This > >> means: > >> > >> > >> 1) making the valley a good place not only to > build > >> a company but > >> to > >> > >> build a *career*. this means buy in from both > sides > >> of the > >> equation. > >> > >> I would like to see a bit more address at lower > capital > >> levels, but > >> > >> that may prove to be difficult. It seems that > most > >> existing > >> concepts > >> > >> are kind of stuck in the industrial model, where > you build > >> a factory > >> > >> in a place with low taxes and hire low wage > workers, but > >> technology > >> > >> requires high wage workers who demand a good > thriving job > >> market. > >> The > >> > >> needs are quite different. The biggest issue > with > >> starting a > >> company > >> > >> out here is finding people. Where are all the > >> people? in > >> CA. > >> > >> because it has a good job market. If we can > outsource > >> to India, > >> we > >> > >> sure as hell can outsource to Arizona. > >> > >> > >> 2) setting up low cost legal structure and as > you > >> say mentoring > >> to > >> > >> really help stimulate technology development. > >> We've seen (at > >> least > >> > >> nominal) efforts in the past. Why did they > >> fail? This means > >> real and > >> > >> adequate assistance in bringing concepts to > production and > >> market. > >> A > >> > >> small investment in this area will yield returns > in tax > >> base and > >> > >> property value by a factor of hundreds. Arizona > has > >> the potential > >> to > >> > >> pick up a lot of this commercial activity because > >> California is > >> > >> currently set to become a tax strapped nightmare > state to > >> build your > >> > >> business. If AZ fails to see the opportunity > here, we > >> will lose > >> out > >> > >> big time. Currently the budget proceedings are > still > >> in > >> gridlock. > >> > >> > >> the mayor of Phoenix seems to have the right > idea, > >> he was > >> suggesting > >> > >> recently a green technology center near Phx > center. I > >> think thats > >> the > >> > >> direction AZ needs to go. -jmz > >> > >> > >> > > >> > >> > I like the idea that folks are getting > together to > >> network. > >> This is a really cool idea. Even for > non-technical > >> stuff like > >> finding out how people deal with customers, > contracting, > >> book-keeping, > >> ETC. > >> > >> > > >> > >> > ------------------------ > >> > >> > Keith Smith > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > --- On Sat, 8/1/09, Joshua Zeidner > >> <jjzeid...@gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >> > >> > > >> > >> >> From: Joshua Zeidner <jjzeid...@gmail.com> > >> > >> >> Subject: Re: Geek/Tech/Entrepreneur Stuff > to do in > >> PHX > >> > >> >> To: "Main PLUG discussion list" > >> <plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us> > >> > >> >> Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 6:08 PM > >> > >> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 11:09 PM, > >> > >> >> Alan Dayley<ala...@consultpros.com> > >> > >> >> wrote: > >> > >> >> > Joshua, > >> > >> >> > > >> > >> >> > I put all your replies together in > one long > >> document > >> > >> >> and reread them. > >> > >> >> > I am still confused a bit. > >> Enlightenment via > >> email > >> > >> >> rarely occurs. > >> > >> >> > However, I really want to understand > your > >> position in > >> > >> >> this discussion. > >> > >> >> > Let me summarize what I understand > from > >> your > >> > >> >> replies. > >> > >> >> > > >> > >> >> > ---[Start my paraphasing of your > >> comments]--- > >> > >> >> > > >> > >> >> > - There is a small group or groups > of people > >> who keep > >> > >> >> spinning off > >> > >> >> > communities using tired marketing > >> techniques. > >> This > >> > >> >> results in blogs > >> > >> >> > but not true communities. > >> > >> >> > > >> > >> >> > - Some of these people cannot deal > with > >> existing > >> > >> >> structure and the > >> > >> >> > efforts of the past. > >> > >> >> > > >> > >> >> > - These weak attempts do not > articulate goals > >> or > >> > >> >> purpose well, if at all. > >> > >> >> > > >> > >> >> > - We must honestly look at criticism > to learn > >> and > >> > >> >> improve. > >> > >> >> > > >> > >> >> > - These weak people need to address > the > >> efforts of the > >> > >> >> past and > >> > >> >> > provide suggestions on how they can > be > >> improved upon. > >> > >> >> > > >> > >> >> > - Getting political support will > provide > >> legitimacy to > >> > >> >> their efforts. > >> > >> >> > > >> > >> >> > - Phoenix will attract technology > businesses > >> because > >> > >> >> of the relative > >> > >> >> > low cost and this will help improve > things. > >> > >> >> > > >> > >> >> > - You have first hand experiences of > weak, > >> marketing > >> > >> >> fronted, > >> > >> >> > community building efforts. > >> > >> >> > > >> > >> >> > - Many 'entrepreneurs' have grand > >> ideas but get > >> > >> >> nowhere with them > >> > >> >> > because they are not real > businesses. > >> > >> >> > > >> > >> >> > - People at a co-working location or > coffee > >> shop will > >> > >> >> not help you > >> > >> >> > with your business unless you pay > them. > >> > >> >> > > >> > >> >> > - Most people at co-working started > their one > >> person > >> > >> >> business after > >> > >> >> > being laid-off and are not serious > about > >> it. > >> They > >> > >> >> are really just > >> > >> >> > looking for the next full time gig. > >> This will get > >> in > >> > >> >> your way if you > >> > >> >> > have real business work to do. > >> > >> >> > > >> > >> >> > - We must look truthfully at this > issue if we > >> are to > >> > >> >> make progress. > >> > >> >> > > >> > >> >> > - There are no serious incubators > and > >> entrepreneurial > >> > >> >> meetups in > >> > >> >> > Phoenix. No announcements on VC > funding > >> of > >> companies > >> > >> >> so it's not > >> > >> >> > really entrepreneurial growth. > >> > >> >> > > >> > >> >> > ---[End my paraphrasing of your > comments]--- > >> > >> >> > > >> > >> >> > I see validity in every one of > these > >> comments. I > >> > >> >> also think many of > >> > >> >> > them can be balanced by the other > point of > >> view. > >> I > >> > >> >> still have > >> > >> >> > questions, if I may ask, before I > state too > >> much of my > >> > >> >> own thinking. > >> > >> >> > I want to learn more about your > thinking. > >> > >> >> > > >> > >> >> > 1. What does "deal with existing > >> structure" > >> mean? > >> > >> >> This confuses me, > >> > >> >> > not know what structure you are > talking > >> about. > >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> Many user groups have been formed > and > >> continue > >> to > >> > >> >> exist... how is > >> > >> >> <groupX> different? other than > its led > >> by > >> > >> >> person Y? I mean dealing > >> > >> >> with some of these groups I feel like Im > back to > >> age 8 > >> > >> >> trying to gain > >> > >> >> admittance into the neighborhood > treehouse. > >> Perhaps I > >> > >> >> should spend > >> > >> >> more time drinking beer with these > people? > >> Seeing the > >> > >> >> same small > >> > >> >> group churning out 'communities' is at > >> first funny, then > >> > >> >> annoying. I > >> > >> >> just see a real lack of serious intent, > and unless > >> that is > >> > >> >> noted > >> > >> >> publicly, it makes all of us look bad. > I > >> really dont > >> > >> >> think Im being > >> > >> >> destructive or malicious here, Im > pointing out > >> some valid > >> > >> >> observations. > >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > > >> > >> >> > 2. To what efforts of the past are > you > >> referring? > >> I > >> > >> >> want to > >> > >> >> > understand the size and nature of > efforts to > >> creating > >> > >> >> a community that > >> > >> >> > you feel were legitimate but perhaps > did not > >> work as > >> > >> >> planned. > >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> I remember when I first came to AZ > >> that there was > >> an > >> > >> >> tech > >> > >> >> incubator... what happened to it? > >> Which > >> > >> >> political agents currently > >> > >> >> support technology development in the > >> valley? what do > >> > >> >> they think > >> > >> >> about your org? these things are > pretty > >> basic... > >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > > >> > >> >> > 3. What political support is > needed? > >> You mean > >> > >> >> government funding of > >> > >> >> > events or startups or just verbal > support or > >> what? > >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> I wouldn't expect funding, but it > >> would be good > >> to > >> > >> >> see some > >> > >> >> political buy in. Lack of just supports > my > >> opinions, > >> > >> >> that its really > >> > >> >> as Lisa said, camouflage for poor > organization. > >> > >> >> Without any good > >> > >> >> signposts, all this will produce are > people who > >> get jaded > >> > >> >> and > >> > >> >> disaffected with regards to this > location. > >> If you had > >> > >> >> something > >> > >> >> together I doubt that a good politician > would turn > >> you > >> > >> >> down. > >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > > >> > >> >> > 4. Why is it wrong or a problem for > someone > >> who is > >> > >> >> laid-off to have > >> > >> >> > grand ideas, talk about them and > they never > >> come to > >> > >> >> be? > >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> Its not. As I said, I don't > >> find any of > >> these > >> > >> >> things highly > >> > >> >> offensive- but like you I am free to > express > >> myself. > >> > >> >> Sorry if its not > >> > >> >> filled with abundant exaltations. > >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > > >> > >> >> > 5. Is it not conceivable that people > might > >> help each > >> > >> >> other in business > >> > >> >> > efforts? Isn't strengthening and > >> creating such a > >> > >> >> culture a good idea > >> > >> >> > or should such a goal not be pursued > because > >> it is not > >> > >> >> practically > >> > >> >> > possible? > >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> sure. good thread btw. > >> -jmz > >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > > >> > >> >> > Alan > >> > >> >> > > >> > >> >> > > >> > >> >> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:20 PM, > Joshua > >> Zeidner<jjzeid...@gmail.com> > >> > >> >> wrote: > >> > >> >> >> another great one: > >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> >> >> "OK, my question stands. Where > are > >> the > >> incubators, > >> > >> >> the "bootstrap" > >> > >> >> >> seminars, the serious > entrepreneurial > >> meetups in > >> > >> >> Phoenix??? (crickets > >> > >> >> >> chirping). Phoenix just ain't > >> happening as a > >> > >> >> serious place where > >> > >> >> >> serious people are doing serious > things. > >> No one > >> > >> >> wants it badly enough > >> > >> >> >> here. This paper should be > having at > >> least one > >> > >> >> article a week on a new > >> > >> >> >> startup and the VC firm who > funded it. > >> > >> >> Helloooo????? is anybody out > >> > >> >> >> there...." > >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> >> >> a better way to phrase this: we > need to > >> stop > >> > >> >> pretending these > >> > >> >> >> whimsical efforts churned out by > local > >> > >> >> self-employed marketing experts > >> > >> >> >> are sufficient. They are not. > >> We should > >> be > >> > >> >> asking the hard > >> > >> >> >> questions, not playing games. > >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> >> >> -jmz > >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> >> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:04 PM, > Joshua > >> > >> >> Zeidner<jjzeid...@gmail.com> > >> > >> >> wrote: > >> > >> >> >>> another point, honestly > reading > >> through > >> some > >> > >> >> of the criticisms on > >> > >> >> >>> azcentral and being of the > cafe > >> dwelling creed > >> > >> >> myself, I'd have to say > >> > >> >> >>> that many of those points > are > >> accurate. > >> I've > >> > >> >> heard lots of > >> > >> >> >>> 'entrepreneurs' with big > >> ideas around here who > >> > >> >> never get anywhere with > >> > >> >> >>> them. Sorry, but a word > press > >> template > >> > >> >> doesn't make you an > >> > >> >> >>> entrepreneur. > >> > >> >> >>> > >> > >> >> >>> "These are the same > people > >> you see > >> at > >> > >> >> Starbucks, Boarders or any > >> > >> >> >>> other wi-fi hot spot, they > are not > >> > >> >> entrepreneurs they are attention > >> > >> >> >>> (inappropriate term)." > >> > >> >> >>> > >> > >> >> >>> "Many of the Co-Worker > >> location > >> founders > >> > >> >> tout other people to > >> > >> >> >>> collaborate with and who > can > >> "compensate > >> for > >> > >> >> your deficiencies". Do > >> > >> >> >>> you really believe someone > that you > >> are not > >> > >> >> paying as an employee is > >> > >> >> >>> going to somehow compensate > for your > >> > >> >> deficiencies and make your > >> > >> >> >>> business better? That kind > of help > >> doesn't > >> > >> >> come without a price." > >> > >> >> >>> > >> > >> >> >>> oh so true... > >> > >> >> >>> > >> > >> >> >>> "You are more likely to > >> get a bunch > >> of > >> > >> >> people chatting to you over > >> > >> >> >>> your "work" so you wont be > >> concentrating > >> as > >> > >> >> you should to focus on > >> > >> >> >>> your business. Most of these > people > >> started > >> > >> >> businesses after being > >> > >> >> >>> laid off. They are searching > for a > >> new job and > >> > >> >> they aren't really > >> > >> >> >>> serious about their > >> "businesses" so how > >> do you > >> > >> >> expect them to give you > >> > >> >> >>> valuable, serious advice. > Are these > >> the kind > >> > >> >> of people you need to > >> > >> >> >>> compensate for your > deficiencies? A > >> bunch of > >> > >> >> people half-as running > >> > >> >> >>> their "business" while > >> searching for a > >> real > >> > >> >> job and bothering you with > >> > >> >> >>> their expertise that got > them laid > >> off in the > >> > >> >> first place." > >> > >> >> >>> > >> > >> >> >>> oh so so true... > >> > >> >> >>> > >> > >> >> >>> I would be willing to bet > the > >> commenter > >> > >> >> above is an tried and true > >> > >> >> >>> successful entrepreneur. > >> Perhaps the > >> reason > >> > >> >> I am so skeptical is > >> > >> >> >>> because I know these kind of > people > >> so well. > >> > >> >> >>> > >> > >> >> >>> sorry I really wish I > could be > >> more > >> > >> >> supportive... but : truth is > >> > >> >> >>> the foundation of progress. > >> > >> >> >>> > >> > >> >> >>> -jmz > >> > >> >> >>> > >> > >> >> >>> > >> > >> >> >>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 3:28 > PM, > >> Joshua > >> > >> >> Zeidner<jjzeid...@gmail.com> > >> > >> >> wrote: > >> > >> >> >>>> Alan, > >> > >> >> >>>> > >> > >> >> >>>> Wish I had time > >> to respond to > >> all > >> > >> >> these points right now, not sure > >> > >> >> >>>> you read me the way I > would > >> prefer > >> > >> >> however. Its not so grave a > >> > >> >> >>>> warning, just getting > the word > >> out on my > >> > >> >> first hand experiences. Im > >> > >> >> >>>> just one of many- but > hopefully > >> an > >> > >> >> impartial observer and someone > >> > >> >> >>>> genuinely concerned for > AZ. > >> > >> >> >>>> > >> > >> >> >>>> all the best, jmz > >> > >> >> >>>> > >> > >> >> >>>> > >> > >> >> >>>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at > 3:12 PM, > >> Alan > >> > >> >> Dayley<ala...@consultpros.com> > >> > >> >> wrote: > >> > >> >> >>>>> Josh, > >> > >> >> >>>>> > >> > >> >> >>>>> I feel warned. And > I > >> don't > >> > >> >> understand the reason for such a strong > warning. > >> > >> >> >>>>> > >> > >> >> >>>>> There are people in > every > >> industry, > >> > >> >> government or community who wish > >> > >> >> >>>>> to fleece their > >> "community" for > >> their > >> > >> >> own profit instead of mutual > >> > >> >> >>>>> benefit. The trick > is > >> to find > >> the > >> > >> >> positive people and ignore the > >> > >> >> >>>>> rest. Apply the > same > >> filter with > >> > >> >> every event, group or blogger in the > >> > >> >> >>>>> lists and links I > >> provided. I > >> don't > >> > >> >> expect bloggers or techies to be > >> > >> >> >>>>> any different, as if > being > >> techie > >> > >> >> makes one a saint. > >> > >> >> >>>>> > >> > >> >> >>>>> Some of those > bloggers are > >> purely > >> > >> >> commercial or completely neglected, > >> > >> >> >>>>> I'm sure. Some of > >> the groups or > >> > >> >> events or sites listed are lousy, > >> > >> >> >>>>> boring or poor > marketing > >> excuses to > >> > >> >> sell something. Some are not out > >> > >> >> >>>>> to create community > but to > >> build a > >> > >> >> "kingdom" for their own benefit. > >> > >> >> >>>>> They are the duds. > >> > >> >> >>>>> > >> > >> >> >>>>> Let's look at a few > >> positives: > >> > >> >> >>>>> > >> > >> >> >>>>> - Read the > Gangplank > >> Manifesto on > >> > >> >> their home page at > >> > >> >> >>>>> > >> > >> http://gangplankhq.com. That looks like > >> > >> >> a great articulation of their > >> > >> >> >>>>> goals and purpose. > Ones > >> I > >> strongly > >> > >> >> support! > >> > >> >> >>>>> -- Read how the > manifesto > >> came to be > >> > >> >> on Derek's blog at > >> > >> >> >>>>> > >> > >> http://derekneighbors.com/2009/07/collaborative-writing-or-how-the-gangplank-manifesto-was-written/ > >> > >> > >> >> >>>>> > >> > >> >> >>>>> - Gangplank has > hosted or is > >> hosting: > >> > >> >> >>>>> -- MobiFest - a day > long > >> conference on > >> > >> >> developing for phones like > >> > >> >> >>>>> iPhone or Android > >> > >> >> >>>>> -- Gangplank Jr. - a > 2-3 hour > >> Saturday > >> > >> >> event for kids 5-15 to learn > >> > >> >> >>>>> programming > concepts > >> > >> >> >>>>> -- Wordpress > training classes > >> for > >> > >> >> minimal cost or no-cost for non-profit > orgs > >> > >> >> >>>>> -- Laid Off Camp - a > day > >> long > >> > >> >> conference on job searching and > entreprenuership > >> > >> >> >>>>> -- Barcamp Pheonix - > a day > >> long > >> > >> >> conference on software development > >> > >> >> >>>>> -- TEDx night - > Watch ted.com > >> videos > >> > >> >> and discuss them > >> > >> >> >>>>> -- OpenPhoenix - a > night of > >> open mic > >> > >> >> music and entertainment > >> > >> >> >>>>> > >> > >> >> >>>>> - The last > >> > >> http://desertcodecamp.com/ was held on June 13th and > >> > >> >> nearly > >> > >> >> >>>>> filled DeVry's > Phoenix > >> campus with > >> > >> >> developers talking about code or > >> > >> >> >>>>> making code. Free > lunch > >> of pizza > >> and > >> > >> >> sub sandwiches was provided too. > >> > >> >> >>>>> Put together by > >> volunteers. > >> > >> >> >>>>> > >> > >> >> >>>>> - If you're into > >> Microsoft based > >> > >> >> development tech, the people who > >> > >> >> >>>>> maintain the > >> http://azgroups.com > >> site do an annual all-day event at > >> > >> >> >>>>> venues like the > Orphium > >> Theater and at > >> > >> >> no cost to attendees. Fine, > >> > >> >> >>>>> it's marketing for > MS but > >> it's put on > >> > >> >> by volunteers here in the valley > >> > >> >> >>>>> and a great way for > people to > >> learn > >> > >> >> about things that improve their > >> > >> >> >>>>> career skills. > >> > >> >> >>>>> > >> ( > >> http://www.componentart.com/BLOGS/milos/archive/2009/06/02/scott-guthrie-event-2009-phoenix-az.aspx > >> ) > >> > >> >> >>>>> > >> > >> >> >>>>> - The local Ruby On > Rails > >> group has > >> > >> >> monthly meetings with around 30 > >> > >> >> >>>>> regularly in > attendance. > >> > >> >> >>>>> > >> > >> >> >>>>> - The Java group is > also well > >> attended > >> > >> >> every month. > >> > >> >> >>>>> > >> > >> >> >>>>> - The third > >> http://podcampaz.com/ > >> is coming up in November, put on > >> > >> >> by > >> > >> >> >>>>> voluteers at no > cost > >> (donation > >> > >> >> requested) to attendees. Had about 350 > >> > >> >> >>>>> people attend last > year (if I > >> recall) > >> > >> >> for two days of conference. > >> > >> >> >>>>> > >> > >> >> >>>>> - The > >> > >> http://azentrepreneurship.com/ conference > will be in > >> > >> >> November > >> > >> >> >>>>> for the forth year. > >> This one > >> costs > >> > >> >> $100+ but should be as well > >> > >> >> >>>>> attended as last > year with > >> 200+ > >> > >> >> people. Funded and organized in part > >> > >> >> >>>>> by a local venture > capital > >> group. > >> > >> >> >>>>> > >> > >> >> >>>>> - The first > >> > >> http://ignitephoenix.com event was held a year ago > >> with > >> > >> >> a > >> > >> >> >>>>> little over 100 in > attendance > >> and has > >> > >> >> grown to fill the 600 seat > >> > >> >> >>>>> Theather at Tempe > Center for > >> the Arts > >> > >> >> back in June. The connections > >> > >> >> >>>>> made there live well > past the > >> event. > >> > >> >> >>>>> -- Oh, a city > council member > >> and the > >> > >> >> mayor of Tempe spoke this last > >> > >> >> >>>>> time, though he was > a bit > >> silly trying > >> > >> >> to be Tempe exclusive. That > >> > >> >> >>>>> seems to be at least > verbal > >> political > >> > >> >> support. > >> > >> >> >>>>> > >> > >> >> >>>>> - The second > ABLEConf on > >> FS/OSS is > >> > >> >> being planned for October and > >> > >> >> >>>>> should be better > than last > >> year. (Go > >> > >> >> Hans and team!) > >> > >> >> >>>>> > >> > >> >> >>>>> I'm not going to go > on, > >> though I could > >> > >> >> point out several purely social > >> > >> >> >>>>> events like > >> > >> http://phoenixfridaynights.com/, it's > east and > >> west > >> > >> >> valley > >> > >> >> >>>>> analogs, East Valley > Thursday > >> Morning > >> > >> >> breakfasts, Tempe Geeks Lunch, > >> > >> >> >>>>> South Valley Geek > Meet and > >> Eat and > >> > >> >> Gangplank's Brown Gag lunch > >> > >> >> >>>>> presentations every > >> Wednesday. > >> > >> >> >>>>> > >> > >> >> >>>>> Now, having said all > of that > >> "giddy > >> > >> >> blind optimism," I'd like to > >> > >> >> >>>>> understand how the > above does > >> not > >> > >> >> address the efforts of the past or > >> > >> >> >>>>> provide improvement > over past > >> efforts. > >> > >> >> What are the real needs of the > >> > >> >> >>>>> community, if not > some of the > >> above? > >> > >> >> What would you suggest? How can > >> > >> >> >>>>> PLUG be a part of > it? > >> > >> >> >>>>> > >> > >> >> >>>>> Alan > >> > >> >> >>>>> > >> > >> >> >>>>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 > at 1:34 > >> PM, > >> > >> >> Joshua Zeidner<jjzeid...@gmail.com> > >> > >> >> wrote: > >> > >> >> >>>>>> Alan, > >> > >> >> >>>>>> > >> > >> >> >>>>>> while I > >> appreciate > >> your post, > >> > >> >> and anyone who is making a sincere > >> > >> >> >>>>>> effort to build > community > >> in > >> > >> >> Phoenix... be warned. There are some > >> > >> >> >>>>>> small groups > who > >> periodically > >> > >> >> spawn off new 'communities' every month > >> > >> >> >>>>>> or so. Look > closely > >> and you > >> see > >> > >> >> the same few people with reused > >> > >> >> >>>>>> marketing > recipes. > >> Lots of > >> blog > >> > >> >> and not too much community I'm > >> > >> >> >>>>>> afraid. Their > >> efforts amount > >> to > >> > >> >> some simple branding and putting up a > >> > >> >> >>>>>> blog. While > these > >> things are > >> not > >> > >> >> really particularily offensive to > >> > >> >> >>>>>> me, they do > somewhat > >> detract from > >> > >> >> interest in the real needs of the > >> > >> >> >>>>>> community here. > >> Some of > >> these > >> > >> >> people are just outright idiotic and > >> > >> >> >>>>>> cannot deal > with > >> existing > >> > >> >> structure and refuse to accept the > history > >> > >> >> >>>>>> of efforts in > the > >> past. They > >> > >> >> lack any articulation of their goals and > >> > >> >> >>>>>> purpose. > Often > >> times they > >> have > >> > >> >> trouble organizing even small groups > >> > >> >> >>>>>> of 2 or 3. > Dont > >> forget we've > >> had > >> > >> >> a tech incubator here. Lets not > >> > >> >> >>>>>> smack down > sincere > >> criticism in > >> > >> >> favor of giddy blind optimism, > >> > >> >> >>>>>> remember you > can't > >> improve without > >> > >> >> criticism. I would take these > >> > >> >> >>>>>> people much > more > >> seriously if they > >> > >> >> addressed the efforts of the past > >> > >> >> >>>>>> and perhaps > suggested how > >> they are > >> > >> >> going to improve on them, or > >> > >> >> >>>>>> perhaps indicate > what has > >> changed > >> > >> >> that will make them a success. > >> > >> >> >>>>>> Maybe seeking > real > >> political > >> > >> >> support would gain some legitimacy. > >> > >> >> >>>>>> > >> > >> >> >>>>>> on the > >> positive side, > >> I think > >> > >> >> Phoenix will attract a lot of > >> > >> >> >>>>>> technology > business due > >> to its > >> > >> >> relative low cost and no doubt you will > >> > >> >> >>>>>> start to see > community > >> > >> >> infrastructure grow. We are seeing > some > >> real > >> > >> >> >>>>>> urban > development > >> happening in Phx > >> > >> >> metro which has me very excited. I > >> > >> >> >>>>>> think when the > >> macroeconomic > >> > >> >> problems are sorted out we will see > >> > >> >> >>>>>> downtown Phx > bloom. > >> Im > >> hoping > >> > >> >> that the average Arizonan gets involved > >> > >> >> >>>>>> in the political > process > >> and make > >> > >> >> sure that the corruption stays out > >> > >> >> >>>>>> of city and > state > >> politics. > >> > >> >> Coming from NY, Im recognizing a lot > of > >> > >> >> >>>>>> positive > development > >> trends in Phx > >> > >> >> metro. > >> > >> >> >>>>>> > >> > >> >> >>>>>> -jmz > >> > >> >> >>>>> > >> > >> >> > >> > --------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> >> >>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing > list - > >> PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > >> > >> >> >>>>> To subscribe, > unsubscribe, or > >> to > >> > >> >> change your mail settings: > >> > >> >> >>>>> > >> > >> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > >> > >> >> >>>>> > >> > >> >> >>>> > >> > >> >> >>> > >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> >> > >> > --------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> >> >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - > >> PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > >> > >> >> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to > change > >> your mail > >> > >> >> settings: > >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> >> > > >> > --------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> >> > PLUG-discuss mailing list - > >> PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > >> > >> >> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to > change your > >> mail > >> > >> >> settings: > >> > >> >> > > >> > >> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > >> > >> >> > > >> > >> >> > >> > --------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - > >> PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > >> > >> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change > your mail > >> > >> >> settings: > >> > >> >> > >> > >> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > >> > >> >> > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > --------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> > PLUG-discuss mailing list - > >> PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > >> > >> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your > mail > >> settings: > >> > >> > > >> > >> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > >> > >> > > >> > >> > --------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - > >> PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > >> > >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail > >> settings: > >> > >> > >> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > >> > >> > --------------------------------------------------- > >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail > >> settings: > >> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------- > > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail > settings: > > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail > settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > --------------------------------------------------- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
