It would be interesting to get a free market group together. I'm moving back to Phoenix in the next 3 months or so.
Let's form a free market group. ------------------------ Keith Smith --- On Sat, 8/1/09, Lyle Tuttle <l.tut...@cox.net> wrote: > From: Lyle Tuttle <l.tut...@cox.net> > Subject: Re: Geek/Tech/Entrepreneur Stuff to do in PHX > To: "Main PLUG discussion list" <plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us> > Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 9:17 PM > > > Oh, I agree -- we should talk about that > sometime....<G> > > > At 08:12 PM 8/1/2009, you wrote: > > > > > Only problem > is you have > government in business. > > > ------------------------ > > Keith Smith > > > > > --- On Sat, 8/1/09, Lyle Tuttle <l.tut...@cox.net> > wrote: > > > > From: Lyle Tuttle <l.tut...@cox.net> > > > Subject: Re: Geek/Tech/Entrepreneur Stuff to do in > PHX > > > To: "Main PLUG discussion list" > <plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us> > > > Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 7:58 PM > > > > > > > > > The city of Surprise has moved into a new > > > city hall complex, > > > and are turning the old offices / building into a > > > "start-up" or > > > incubator for new or emerging businesses. > > > > > > > > > lyle tuttle > > > > > > > > > At 07:50 PM 8/1/2009, you wrote: > > > > > > On Sat, Aug 1, > > > 2009 at 6:50 PM, > > > keith smith<klsmith2...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what is really missing from this equation > is > > > mentoring and > > > training. > > > > > > > > > what I would like to see is some real > support from > > > AZ government > > > to > > > > > > help make tech companies feel welcome here. > This > > > means: > > > > > > > > > 1) making the valley a good place not only > to build > > > a company but > > > to > > > > > > build a *career*. this means buy in from both > sides > > > of the > > > equation. > > > > > > I would like to see a bit more address at lower > capital > > > levels, but > > > > > > that may prove to be difficult. It seems that > most > > > existing > > > concepts > > > > > > are kind of stuck in the industrial model, where you > build > > > a factory > > > > > > in a place with low taxes and hire low wage workers, > but > > > technology > > > > > > requires high wage workers who demand a good thriving > job > > > market. > > > The > > > > > > needs are quite different. The biggest issue > with > > > starting a > > > company > > > > > > out here is finding people. Where are all the > > > people? in > > > CA. > > > > > > because it has a good job market. If we can > outsource > > > to India, > > > we > > > > > > sure as hell can outsource to Arizona. > > > > > > > > > 2) setting up low cost legal structure and > as you > > > say mentoring > > > to > > > > > > really help stimulate technology development. > > > We've seen (at > > > least > > > > > > nominal) efforts in the past. Why did they > > > fail? This means > > > real and > > > > > > adequate assistance in bringing concepts to production > and > > > market. > > > A > > > > > > small investment in this area will yield returns in > tax > > > base and > > > > > > property value by a factor of hundreds. Arizona > has > > > the potential > > > to > > > > > > pick up a lot of this commercial activity because > > > California is > > > > > > currently set to become a tax strapped nightmare state > to > > > build your > > > > > > business. If AZ fails to see the opportunity > here, we > > > will lose > > > out > > > > > > big time. Currently the budget proceedings are > still > > > in > > > gridlock. > > > > > > > > > the mayor of Phoenix seems to have the > right idea, > > > he was > > > suggesting > > > > > > recently a green technology center near Phx > center. I > > > think thats > > > the > > > > > > direction AZ needs to go. -jmz > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I like the idea that folks are getting together > to > > > network. > > > This is a really cool idea. Even for > non-technical > > > stuff like > > > finding out how people deal with customers, > contracting, > > > book-keeping, > > > ETC. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ > > > > > > > Keith Smith > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 8/1/09, Joshua Zeidner > > > <jjzeid...@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> From: Joshua Zeidner > <jjzeid...@gmail.com> > > > > > > >> Subject: Re: Geek/Tech/Entrepreneur Stuff to > do in > > > PHX > > > > > > >> To: "Main PLUG discussion list" > > > <plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us> > > > > > > >> Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 6:08 PM > > > > > > >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 11:09 PM, > > > > > > >> Alan Dayley<ala...@consultpros.com> > > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > > > >> > Joshua, > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > I put all your replies together in one > long > > > document > > > > > > >> and reread them. > > > > > > >> > I am still confused a bit. > > > Enlightenment via > > > email > > > > > > >> rarely occurs. > > > > > > >> > However, I really want to understand > your > > > position in > > > > > > >> this discussion. > > > > > > >> > Let me summarize what I understand > from > > > your > > > > > > >> replies. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > ---[Start my paraphasing of your > > > comments]--- > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > - There is a small group or groups of > people > > > who keep > > > > > > >> spinning off > > > > > > >> > communities using tired marketing > > > techniques. > > > This > > > > > > >> results in blogs > > > > > > >> > but not true communities. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > - Some of these people cannot deal with > > > existing > > > > > > >> structure and the > > > > > > >> > efforts of the past. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > - These weak attempts do not articulate > goals > > > or > > > > > > >> purpose well, if at all. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > - We must honestly look at criticism to > learn > > > and > > > > > > >> improve. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > - These weak people need to address the > > > efforts of the > > > > > > >> past and > > > > > > >> > provide suggestions on how they can be > > > improved upon. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > - Getting political support will > provide > > > legitimacy to > > > > > > >> their efforts. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > - Phoenix will attract technology > businesses > > > because > > > > > > >> of the relative > > > > > > >> > low cost and this will help improve > things. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > - You have first hand experiences of > weak, > > > marketing > > > > > > >> fronted, > > > > > > >> > community building efforts. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > - Many 'entrepreneurs' have > grand > > > ideas but get > > > > > > >> nowhere with them > > > > > > >> > because they are not real businesses. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > - People at a co-working location or > coffee > > > shop will > > > > > > >> not help you > > > > > > >> > with your business unless you pay them. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > - Most people at co-working started > their one > > > person > > > > > > >> business after > > > > > > >> > being laid-off and are not serious > about > > > it. > > > They > > > > > > >> are really just > > > > > > >> > looking for the next full time gig. > > > This will get > > > in > > > > > > >> your way if you > > > > > > >> > have real business work to do. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > - We must look truthfully at this issue > if we > > > are to > > > > > > >> make progress. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > - There are no serious incubators and > > > entrepreneurial > > > > > > >> meetups in > > > > > > >> > Phoenix. No announcements on VC > funding > > > of > > > companies > > > > > > >> so it's not > > > > > > >> > really entrepreneurial growth. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > ---[End my paraphrasing of your > comments]--- > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > I see validity in every one of these > > > comments. I > > > > > > >> also think many of > > > > > > >> > them can be balanced by the other point > of > > > view. > > > I > > > > > > >> still have > > > > > > >> > questions, if I may ask, before I state > too > > > much of my > > > > > > >> own thinking. > > > > > > >> > I want to learn more about your > thinking. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > 1. What does "deal with existing > > > structure" > > > mean? > > > > > > >> This confuses me, > > > > > > >> > not know what structure you are talking > > > about. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> Many user groups have been formed > and > > > continue > > > to > > > > > > >> exist... how is > > > > > > >> <groupX> different? other than > its led > > > by > > > > > > >> person Y? I mean dealing > > > > > > >> with some of these groups I feel like Im back > to > > > age 8 > > > > > > >> trying to gain > > > > > > >> admittance into the neighborhood treehouse. > > > Perhaps I > > > > > > >> should spend > > > > > > >> more time drinking beer with these people? > > > Seeing the > > > > > > >> same small > > > > > > >> group churning out 'communities' is > at > > > first funny, then > > > > > > >> annoying. I > > > > > > >> just see a real lack of serious intent, and > unless > > > that is > > > > > > >> noted > > > > > > >> publicly, it makes all of us look bad. > I > > > really dont > > > > > > >> think Im being > > > > > > >> destructive or malicious here, Im pointing > out > > > some valid > > > > > > >> observations. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > 2. To what efforts of the past are you > > > referring? > > > I > > > > > > >> want to > > > > > > >> > understand the size and nature of > efforts to > > > creating > > > > > > >> a community that > > > > > > >> > you feel were legitimate but perhaps did > not > > > work as > > > > > > >> planned. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> I remember when I first came to > AZ > > > that there was > > > an > > > > > > >> tech > > > > > > >> incubator... what happened to it? > > > Which > > > > > > >> political agents currently > > > > > > >> support technology development in the > > > valley? what do > > > > > > >> they think > > > > > > >> about your org? these things are > pretty > > > basic... > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > 3. What political support is needed? > > > You mean > > > > > > >> government funding of > > > > > > >> > events or startups or just verbal > support or > > > what? > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> I wouldn't expect funding, > but it > > > would be good > > > to > > > > > > >> see some > > > > > > >> political buy in. Lack of just supports > my > > > opinions, > > > > > > >> that its really > > > > > > >> as Lisa said, camouflage for poor > organization. > > > > > > >> Without any good > > > > > > >> signposts, all this will produce are people > who > > > get jaded > > > > > > >> and > > > > > > >> disaffected with regards to this location. > > > If you had > > > > > > >> something > > > > > > >> together I doubt that a good politician would > turn > > > you > > > > > > >> down. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > 4. Why is it wrong or a problem for > someone > > > who is > > > > > > >> laid-off to have > > > > > > >> > grand ideas, talk about them and they > never > > > come to > > > > > > >> be? > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> Its not. As I said, I > don't > > > find any of > > > these > > > > > > >> things highly > > > > > > >> offensive- but like you I am free to express > > > myself. > > > > > > >> Sorry if its not > > > > > > >> filled with abundant exaltations. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > 5. Is it not conceivable that people > might > > > help each > > > > > > >> other in business > > > > > > >> > efforts? Isn't strengthening > and > > > creating such a > > > > > > >> culture a good idea > > > > > > >> > or should such a goal not be pursued > because > > > it is not > > > > > > >> practically > > > > > > >> > possible? > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> sure. good thread btw. > > > -jmz > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > Alan > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:20 PM, Joshua > > > Zeidner<jjzeid...@gmail.com> > > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > > > >> >> another great one: > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> "OK, my question stands. Where > are > > > the > > > incubators, > > > > > > >> the "bootstrap" > > > > > > >> >> seminars, the serious > entrepreneurial > > > meetups in > > > > > > >> Phoenix??? (crickets > > > > > > >> >> chirping). Phoenix just ain't > > > happening as a > > > > > > >> serious place where > > > > > > >> >> serious people are doing serious > things. > > > No one > > > > > > >> wants it badly enough > > > > > > >> >> here. This paper should be having > at > > > least one > > > > > > >> article a week on a new > > > > > > >> >> startup and the VC firm who funded > it. > > > > > > >> Helloooo????? is anybody out > > > > > > >> >> there...." > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> a better way to phrase this: we need > to > > > stop > > > > > > >> pretending these > > > > > > >> >> whimsical efforts churned out by > local > > > > > > >> self-employed marketing experts > > > > > > >> >> are sufficient. They are not. > > > > We should > > > be > > > > > > >> asking the hard > > > > > > >> >> questions, not playing games. > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> -jmz > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:04 PM, > Joshua > > > > > > >> Zeidner<jjzeid...@gmail.com> > > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > > > >> >>> another point, honestly > reading > > > through > > > some > > > > > > >> of the criticisms on > > > > > > >> >>> azcentral and being of the cafe > > > dwelling creed > > > > > > >> myself, I'd have to say > > > > > > >> >>> that many of those points are > > > accurate. > > > I've > > > > > > >> heard lots of > > > > > > >> >>> 'entrepreneurs' with > big > > > ideas around here who > > > > > > >> never get anywhere with > > > > > > >> >>> them. Sorry, but a word > press > > > template > > > > > > >> doesn't make you an > > > > > > >> >>> entrepreneur. > > > > > > >> >>> > > > > > > >> >>> "These are the same > people > > > you see > > > at > > > > > > >> Starbucks, Boarders or any > > > > > > >> >>> other wi-fi hot spot, they are > not > > > > > > >> entrepreneurs they are attention > > > > > > >> >>> (inappropriate term)." > > > > > > >> >>> > > > > > > >> >>> "Many of the > Co-Worker > > > location > > > founders > > > > > > >> tout other people to > > > > > > >> >>> collaborate with and who can > > > "compensate > > > for > > > > > > >> your deficiencies". Do > > > > > > >> >>> you really believe someone that > you > > > are not > > > > > > >> paying as an employee is > > > > > > >> >>> going to somehow compensate for > your > > > > > > >> deficiencies and make your > > > > > > >> >>> business better? That kind of > help > > > doesn't > > > > > > >> come without a price." > > > > > > >> >>> > > > > > > >> >>> oh so true... > > > > > > >> >>> > > > > > > >> >>> "You are more likely > to > > > get a bunch > > > of > > > > > > >> people chatting to you over > > > > > > >> >>> your "work" so you > wont be > > > concentrating > > > as > > > > > > >> you should to focus on > > > > > > >> >>> your business. Most of these > people > > > started > > > > > > >> businesses after being > > > > > > >> >>> laid off. They are searching for > a > > > new job and > > > > > > >> they aren't really > > > > > > >> >>> serious about their > > > "businesses" so how > > > do you > > > > > > >> expect them to give you > > > > > > >> >>> valuable, serious advice. Are > these > > > the kind > > > > > > >> of people you need to > > > > > > >> >>> compensate for your > deficiencies? A > > > bunch of > > > > > > >> people half-as running > > > > > > >> >>> their "business" > while > > > searching for a > > > real > > > > > > >> job and bothering you with > > > > > > >> >>> their expertise that got them > laid > > > off in the > > > > > > >> first place." > > > > > > >> >>> > > > > > > >> >>> oh so so true... > > > > > > >> >>> > > > > > > >> >>> I would be willing to bet > the > > > commenter > > > > > > >> above is an tried and true > > > > > > >> >>> successful entrepreneur. > > > Perhaps the > > > reason > > > > > > >> I am so skeptical is > > > > > > >> >>> because I know these kind of > people > > > so well. > > > > > > >> >>> > > > > > > >> >>> sorry I really wish I > could be > > > more > > > > > > >> supportive... but : truth is > > > > > > >> >>> the foundation of progress. > > > > > > >> >>> > > > > > > >> >>> -jmz > > > > > > >> >>> > > > > > > >> >>> > > > > > > >> >>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 3:28 > PM, > > > Joshua > > > > > > >> Zeidner<jjzeid...@gmail.com> > > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > > > >> >>>> Alan, > > > > > > >> >>>> > > > > > > >> >>>> Wish I had > time > > > to respond to > > > all > > > > > > >> these points right now, not sure > > > > > > >> >>>> you read me the way I would > > > prefer > > > > > > >> however. Its not so grave a > > > > > > >> >>>> warning, just getting the > word > > > out on my > > > > > > >> first hand experiences. Im > > > > > > >> >>>> just one of many- but > hopefully > > > an > > > > > > >> impartial observer and someone > > > > > > >> >>>> genuinely concerned for AZ. > > > > > > >> >>>> > > > > > > >> >>>> all the best, jmz > > > > > > >> >>>> > > > > > > >> >>>> > > > > > > >> >>>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 3:12 > PM, > > > Alan > > > > > > >> Dayley<ala...@consultpros.com> > > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > > > >> >>>>> Josh, > > > > > > >> >>>>> > > > > > > >> >>>>> I feel warned. And > I > > > don't > > > > > > >> understand the reason for such a strong > warning. > > > > > > >> >>>>> > > > > > > >> >>>>> There are people in > every > > > industry, > > > > > > >> government or community who wish > > > > > > >> >>>>> to fleece their > > > "community" for > > > their > > > > > > >> own profit instead of mutual > > > > > > >> >>>>> benefit. The trick > is > > > to find > > > the > > > > > > >> positive people and ignore the > > > > > > >> >>>>> rest. Apply the > same > > > filter with > > > > > > >> every event, group or blogger in the > > > > > > >> >>>>> lists and links I > > > provided. I > > > don't > > > > > > >> expect bloggers or techies to be > > > > > > >> >>>>> any different, as if > being > > > techie > > > > > > >> makes one a saint. > > > > > > >> >>>>> > > > > > > >> >>>>> Some of those bloggers > are > > > purely > > > > > > >> commercial or completely neglected, > > > > > > >> >>>>> I'm sure. Some > of > > > the groups or > > > > > > >> events or sites listed are lousy, > > > > > > >> >>>>> boring or poor > marketing > > > excuses to > > > > > > >> sell something. Some are not out > > > > > > >> >>>>> to create community but > to > > > build a > > > > > > >> "kingdom" for their own benefit. > > > > > > >> >>>>> They are the duds. > > > > > > >> >>>>> > > > > > > >> >>>>> Let's look at a few > > > positives: > > > > > > >> >>>>> > > > > > > >> >>>>> - Read the Gangplank > > > Manifesto on > > > > > > >> their home page at > > > > > > >> >>>>> > > > > > > > > http://gangplankhq.com. That looks like > > > > > > >> a great articulation of their > > > > > > >> >>>>> goals and purpose. > Ones > > > I > > > strongly > > > > > > >> support! > > > > > > >> >>>>> -- Read how the > manifesto > > > came to be > > > > > > >> on Derek's blog at > > > > > > >> >>>>> > > > > > > > > http://derekneighbors.com/2009/07/collaborative-writing-or-how-the-gangplank-manifesto-was-written/ > > > > > > > > > > >> >>>>> > > > > > > >> >>>>> - Gangplank has hosted > or is > > > hosting: > > > > > > >> >>>>> -- MobiFest - a day > long > > > conference on > > > > > > >> developing for phones like > > > > > > >> >>>>> iPhone or Android > > > > > > >> >>>>> -- Gangplank Jr. - a 2-3 > hour > > > Saturday > > > > > > >> event for kids 5-15 to learn > > > > > > >> >>>>> programming concepts > > > > > > >> >>>>> -- Wordpress training > classes > > > for > > > > > > >> minimal cost or no-cost for non-profit orgs > > > > > > >> >>>>> -- Laid Off Camp - a > day > > > long > > > > > > >> conference on job searching and > entreprenuership > > > > > > >> >>>>> -- Barcamp Pheonix - a > day > > > long > > > > > > >> conference on software development > > > > > > >> >>>>> -- TEDx night - Watch > ted.com > > > videos > > > > > > >> and discuss them > > > > > > >> >>>>> -- OpenPhoenix - a night > of > > > open mic > > > > > > >> music and entertainment > > > > > > >> >>>>> > > > > > > >> >>>>> - The last > > > > > > > > http://desertcodecamp.com/ was held on June 13th and > > > > > > >> nearly > > > > > > >> >>>>> filled DeVry's > Phoenix > > > campus with > > > > > > >> developers talking about code or > > > > > > >> >>>>> making code. Free > lunch > > > of pizza > > > and > > > > > > >> sub sandwiches was provided too. > > > > > > >> >>>>> Put together by > > > volunteers. > > > > > > >> >>>>> > > > > > > >> >>>>> - If you're into > > > Microsoft based > > > > > > >> development tech, the people who > > > > > > >> >>>>> maintain the > > > > http://azgroups.com > > > > site do an annual all-day event at > > > > > > >> >>>>> venues like the Orphium > > > Theater and at > > > > > > >> no cost to attendees. Fine, > > > > > > >> >>>>> it's marketing for > MS but > > > it's put on > > > > > > >> by volunteers here in the valley > > > > > > >> >>>>> and a great way for > people to > > > learn > > > > > > >> about things that improve their > > > > > > >> >>>>> career skills. > > > > > > >> >>>>> > > > ( > > > > > http://www.componentart.com/BLOGS/milos/archive/2009/06/02/scott-guthrie-event-2009-phoenix-az.aspx > > > > ) > > > > > > >> >>>>> > > > > > > >> >>>>> - The local Ruby On > Rails > > > group has > > > > > > >> monthly meetings with around 30 > > > > > > >> >>>>> regularly in > attendance. > > > > > > >> >>>>> > > > > > > >> >>>>> - The Java group is also > well > > > attended > > > > > > >> every month. > > > > > > >> >>>>> > > > > > > >> >>>>> - The third > > > > http://podcampaz.com/ > > > > is coming up in November, put on > > > > > > >> by > > > > > > >> >>>>> voluteers at no cost > > > (donation > > > > > > >> requested) to attendees. Had about 350 > > > > > > >> >>>>> people attend last year > (if I > > > recall) > > > > > > >> for two days of conference. > > > > > > >> >>>>> > > > > > > >> >>>>> - The > > > > > > > > http://azentrepreneurship.com/ conference will be in > > > > > > >> November > > > > > > >> >>>>> for the forth year. > > > This one > > > costs > > > > > > >> $100+ but should be as well > > > > > > >> >>>>> attended as last year > with > > > 200+ > > > > > > >> people. Funded and organized in part > > > > > > >> >>>>> by a local venture > capital > > > group. > > > > > > >> >>>>> > > > > > > >> >>>>> - The first > > > > > > > > http://ignitephoenix.com event was held a year ago > > > with > > > > > > >> a > > > > > > >> >>>>> little over 100 in > attendance > > > and has > > > > > > >> grown to fill the 600 seat > > > > > > >> >>>>> Theather at Tempe Center > for > > > the Arts > > > > > > >> back in June. The connections > > > > > > >> >>>>> made there live well > past the > > > event. > > > > > > >> >>>>> -- Oh, a city council > member > > > and the > > > > > > >> mayor of Tempe spoke this last > > > > > > >> >>>>> time, though he was a > bit > > > silly trying > > > > > > >> to be Tempe exclusive. That > > > > > > >> >>>>> seems to be at least > verbal > > > political > > > > > > >> support. > > > > > > >> >>>>> > > > > > > >> >>>>> - The second ABLEConf > on > > > FS/OSS is > > > > > > >> being planned for October and > > > > > > >> >>>>> should be better than > last > > > year. (Go > > > > > > >> Hans and team!) > > > > > > >> >>>>> > > > > > > >> >>>>> I'm not going to go > on, > > > though I could > > > > > > >> point out several purely social > > > > > > >> >>>>> events like > > > > > > > > http://phoenixfridaynights.com/, it's east and > > > west > > > > > > >> valley > > > > > > >> >>>>> analogs, East Valley > Thursday > > > Morning > > > > > > >> breakfasts, Tempe Geeks Lunch, > > > > > > >> >>>>> South Valley Geek Meet > and > > > Eat and > > > > > > >> Gangplank's Brown Gag lunch > > > > > > >> >>>>> presentations every > > > Wednesday. > > > > > > >> >>>>> > > > > > > >> >>>>> Now, having said all of > that > > > "giddy > > > > > > >> blind optimism," I'd like to > > > > > > >> >>>>> understand how the above > does > > > not > > > > > > >> address the efforts of the past or > > > > > > >> >>>>> provide improvement over > past > > > efforts. > > > > > > >> What are the real needs of the > > > > > > >> >>>>> community, if not some > of the > > > above? > > > > > > >> What would you suggest? How can > > > > > > >> >>>>> PLUG be a part of it? > > > > > > >> >>>>> > > > > > > >> >>>>> Alan > > > > > > >> >>>>> > > > > > > >> >>>>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at > 1:34 > > > PM, > > > > > > >> Joshua Zeidner<jjzeid...@gmail.com> > > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > > > >> >>>>>> Alan, > > > > > > >> >>>>>> > > > > > > >> >>>>>> > while I > > > appreciate > > > your post, > > > > > > >> and anyone who is making a sincere > > > > > > >> >>>>>> effort to build > community > > > in > > > > > > >> Phoenix... be warned. There are some > > > > > > >> >>>>>> small groups who > > > periodically > > > > > > >> spawn off new 'communities' every > month > > > > > > >> >>>>>> or so. Look > closely > > > and you > > > see > > > > > > >> the same few people with reused > > > > > > >> >>>>>> marketing recipes. > > > Lots of > > > blog > > > > > > >> and not too much community I'm > > > > > > >> >>>>>> afraid. Their > > > efforts amount > > > to > > > > > > >> some simple branding and putting up a > > > > > > >> >>>>>> blog. While > these > > > things are > > > not > > > > > > >> really particularily offensive to > > > > > > >> >>>>>> me, they do > somewhat > > > detract from > > > > > > >> interest in the real needs of the > > > > > > >> >>>>>> community here. > > > Some of > > > these > > > > > > >> people are just outright idiotic and > > > > > > >> >>>>>> cannot deal with > > > existing > > > > > > >> structure and refuse to accept the history > > > > > > >> >>>>>> of efforts in the > > > past. They > > > > > > >> lack any articulation of their goals and > > > > > > >> >>>>>> purpose. > Often > > > times they > > > have > > > > > > >> trouble organizing even small groups > > > > > > >> >>>>>> of 2 or 3. > Dont > > > forget we've > > > had > > > > > > >> a tech incubator here. Lets not > > > > > > >> >>>>>> smack down sincere > > > criticism in > > > > > > >> favor of giddy blind optimism, > > > > > > >> >>>>>> remember you > can't > > > improve without > > > > > > >> criticism. I would take these > > > > > > >> >>>>>> people much more > > > seriously if they > > > > > > >> addressed the efforts of the past > > > > > > >> >>>>>> and perhaps > suggested how > > > they are > > > > > > >> going to improve on them, or > > > > > > >> >>>>>> perhaps indicate > what has > > > changed > > > > > > >> that will make them a success. > > > > > > >> >>>>>> Maybe seeking real > > > political > > > > > > >> support would gain some legitimacy. > > > > > > >> >>>>>> > > > > > > >> >>>>>> on > the > > > positive side, > > > I think > > > > > > >> Phoenix will attract a lot of > > > > > > >> >>>>>> technology business > due > > > to its > > > > > > >> relative low cost and no doubt you will > > > > > > >> >>>>>> start to see > community > > > > > > >> infrastructure grow. We are seeing > some > > > real > > > > > > >> >>>>>> urban development > > > happening in Phx > > > > > > >> metro which has me very excited. I > > > > > > >> >>>>>> think when the > > > macroeconomic > > > > > > >> problems are sorted out we will see > > > > > > >> >>>>>> downtown Phx bloom. > > > > Im > > > hoping > > > > > > >> that the average Arizonan gets involved > > > > > > >> >>>>>> in the political > process > > > and make > > > > > > >> sure that the corruption stays out > > > > > > >> >>>>>> of city and state > > > politics. > > > > > > >> Coming from NY, Im recognizing a lot > of > > > > > > >> >>>>>> positive > development > > > trends in Phx > > > > > > >> metro. > > > > > > >> >>>>>> > > > > > > >> >>>>>> -jmz > > > > > > >> >>>>> > > > > > > >> > > > --------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > >> >>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing > list - > > > PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > > > > > > >> >>>>> To subscribe, > unsubscribe, or > > > to > > > > > > >> change your mail settings: > > > > > > >> >>>>> > > > > > > > > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > > > > >> >>>>> > > > > > > >> >>>> > > > > > > >> >>> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> > > > --------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > >> >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - > > > PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > > > > > > >> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to > change > > > your mail > > > > > > >> settings: > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> > > > > --------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > >> > PLUG-discuss mailing list - > > > PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > > > > > > >> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change > your > > > mail > > > > > > >> settings: > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > --------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - > > > PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > > > > > > >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your > mail > > > > > > >> settings: > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > PLUG-discuss mailing list - > > > PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > > > > > > > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your > mail > > > settings: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > PLUG-discuss mailing list - > > > PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > > > > > > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail > > > settings: > > > > > > > > > > > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------- > > > PLUG-discuss mailing list - > PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > > > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail > > > settings: > > > > > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------- > > PLUG-discuss mailing list - > PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail > settings: > > > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail > settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --------------------------------------------------- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
