In NYC the LIRR is mostly above ground the subway is below ground, they are separate systems.
Some really interesting historical pics here of how the system is built: https://www.quora.com/Are-the-streets-in-Manhattan-directly-above-the-subways-If-so-how-do-the-streets-not-collapse-with-the-weight-of-the-cars-buildings-etc-since-below-the-street-it-seems-to-be-hollow#:~:text=In%20fact%2C%20there%20are%20blocks,electrical%20tunnels%2C%20and%20homeless%20villages. I would have preferred the rail system underground as well in Portland but the increased cost would have prevented them from reaching Hillsboro and the Hillsboro mayor was heavily lobbying for it to get out to there. The biggest problem with MAX, WES and the rest of those systems is they have been effectively obsoleted by the Work From Home trend. Ironically, the biggest enabler of WFH is Intel since without their chips we would not have the infrastructure today for it to exist so that the average Ma and Pa Kettle could access it. Ridership on all mass transit has fallen and is stagnant. The original dream was they would get all of the middle and upper middle class people riding it when the Freeways like I5 and US 26 were overcapacity. For 4 decades highway policy in PDX has been to encourage congestion in order to force people out of cars into transportation Alternatives. The unexpected side effect though has been to force them out of their cars into working from their homes. This destroyed the congestion needed to execute this policy. It also is killing restaurant and other retail downtown and the city people are tearing their hair out over this. Now the local governments are pursuing a new policy - trying to tax people out of their cars with tolling. But the reality is that the wealthier workers - the ones with higher paid skills and who are in most demand - can negotiate and force WFH and so over time they will be paying very little in the way of tolls. It will be the poorer less skilled workers who can be forced to go into offices who will be paying the bulk of tolling. And the entire justification for tolling is to build new transit infrastructure - which is simply not needed today. I recall in the 1990's literally going 5Mph all the way from Cornelius Pass Road to downtown PDX at 5pm at night. No longer, it's been years since it's been like that. Ted -----Original Message----- From: PLUG <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Tomas Kuchta Sent: Tuesday, March 7, 2023 11:43 AM To: Portland Linux/Unix Group <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [PLUG] Venue for next month ... On Tue, Mar 7, 2023, 13:59 Ted Mittelstaedt <[email protected]> wrote: > IMHO the problem with that is an excessive number of MAX stations. > > When I was in NYC I noticed very few stations downtown on the rail. > You got on at penn station then the train flew out to the bouroghs. > And that thing moved damn fast. MAX rail speed is much slower IMHO > the result of political decisions of giving a stop to everyone to > satisfy people not willing to walk 5 blocks downtown. > . Max needs to go underground in the downtown area - only then it can go fast, don't stop at junctions and each stop can cover a few blocks with different exits. IMHO - from simply learning/observing how it is done elsewhere.... >
