On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 8:18 PM, Russel Caldwell <[email protected]> wrote: > Ostensibly is the key word isn't it?
Yes, it absolutely is. In my response I wanted to specifically address the question of what makes a government's use of force legitimate - not what makes the US government's use of force legitimate. I tried to be pretty clear that I was addressing hypotheticals and ideals/ideas, not the current reality of the American government we're living under. > How do we implicitly cede our rights to use force to the government by > participating in society? Exactly what are my options if I decide not to > participate? Exactly how would I not participate in society? Move to Alaska and go off the grid. It is an option open to you, and you haven't taken it. That is an implicit acceptance of your circumstances. > This whole > thing would be a moot point to me if the government wasn't so egregiously > encroaching on my rights to do what I think is in my own best interests as > long as I don't infringe on the rights of others do likewise. I kind of agree, but again... political theory vs. current reality. > Exactly what > fundamental principle allows the government to take my property and do with > it what it will without my consent? Isn't this a fundamental question that > should be treated more circumspectly than it is by the political elite? Honestly, my reaction to this is to mentally shrug and go "Eh." Death and taxes. > But isn't this a salient point in this conversation? Isn't the current > government ceding its legitimacy as a wielder of force by the very way it > exercises that power? Well, depends on which conversation you mean. I don't even remember where we started. Overall though I'd say no. Not unless you want to start a civil war. Personally I'll vote with my feet before I'll fight in a civil war. I like being alive (and, more to the point, being alive in the company of Swedish women) more than I like saving a country full of fat, entitled mouth-breathers from their own inattention and insecurities. Like someone else said, as long as you're free to leave, that's what counts. So far I can still leave - and if someone decides I can't, well, the Canadian border is awfully long and I can still claim citizenship there. > I am painfully aware of the possible weaknesses of the anarcho-capitalist > view in a "what if" kind of way (not that we've tried anything that comes > remotely close to know one way or another), but I'm also more presently > aware of the catastrophe we've got in the present "democratic" system. Maybe you should just admit that pure systems, on either side of the equation, are never going to work. We don't need to try an anarcho-capitalist system to know it won't work for the same reason we don't need to try a "let's all just get along" system to know it won't work. It's just an obviously bad idea on its face. > actually gets what he wants. In a free market transaction 100% of the > participants get what they want. And the people who can't participate because they're poor just get screwed. And we can't have a free market without a government anyway, so what are you still on about? > Winston Churchill said, "The best argument against democracy is a > five-minute conversation with the average voter.” Yes, and Mark Twain said "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the other ones." > Isn't that that the fundamental definition of government, an institution > that has a monopoly on the use of force? Isn't that what the founding > fathers of this country feared the most? You mean the founding fathers like George Washington, who used the militia (which the 2nd amendment guarantees) to put down an armed uprising just a few short years after we won our independence? Those founding fathers? No, I really don't think it is. -Dan /* PLUG: http://plug.org, #utah on irc.freenode.net Unsubscribe: http://plug.org/mailman/options/plug Don't fear the penguin. */
