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http://pnews.org/
Progressive News & Views (since 1982)
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Progressive News & Views (since 1982)
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To All:
It is beyond comprehension that some conferees will join a list like this
and will not familiarize themselves with proper forum protocol before they
post. One of the objectives for PNEWS has always been to raise the level
of discourse and for awhile -- many years ago, we seemed on the cusp
between net anarchy and chaos and doing that. I have to admit at that I
failed. In the beginning I was also more engaged and it takes someone who
is engaged 150% to make it happen. There are only a handful of forums on
the net which meet that criteria. This is not one of them. When the forum
was hosted at St Johns University and had an .edu address that was easier
to do also. Yahoo did much to devalue mailing lists by making it almost
too easy to start a list. In the old days it took some planning, a
charter, and a lot of work to administrate. In order to insure a high
level of intellectual discourse it would be necessary to go back to full
moderation and to provide detailed policy (as we once had) and invite
those with a specific interest -- or rather specific sub-interests since
everything is so specialized. As it is now it is even difficult to elicit
a response. Never-mind that there are always between 450 and 500
subscribers here. Most, as always (on all mailing lists) are lurkers. Most
do not post. Most only hang out here and when they get tired of a list,
with Yahoo and Gmail and other mail programs they stay subscribed and
simply filter out their mail. It makes these lists almost irrelevant. Or,
maybe completely purposeless for us to go on with it. Why bother?
A few more truisms:
Get over the idea of debating on the InterNUT. That is a non-sequitur. On
the net when there are no rules there is talking over each other and those
who post already have their minds made up. There is a lot of ego and a lot
of preconceived ideas but no body wins anything. In a debate there is
usually a winner, someone or some team which can win on the basis of
truth. Not on the net.
I have been in this medium since before it was a household name when it
was first conceived as a communications medium to counter electro magnetic
pulse interference with what was then traditional communications. One of
the reasons pnews-l has survived is because it isn't a mailing list like
others which have come and gone. Here you can posit your ideas but must
also qualify them.
Our subscriber list has been as high as 30,000 subscribers though much
less now because of the proliferation of pop lists like Yahoo and Google,
and the trend is towards other activities and all of the pop mailing lists
have been trend-driven and they are losing their popularity because they
are no longer the net trend. CMS, Podcasting and Blogs are the current
trends.
pnews-l changed its name to fightback and then split again (because on
PeaceNet it was pnews and pnews.d) is now pnews-views and pnews-news --
and is different than other lists and does not rely on trends. This is/was
a symposium. You could submit your papers here. We had a lot of academics
here. There was a great deal of disagreement but there was also a great
deal of discussion but not anymore. Today, especially for newbies, people
join lists where they can have their egos stroked and usually to find
consent, and occasionally (sometimes often) to troll.
The orientation here is progressive. The mission is to provide credible
information, not double-talk or myths. Form is important. Also citations
are important though a link to those citations or citation to the
resources can also suffice. The form should include an intro, the
important preface which describes what you are trying to say, and next the
content which is the substance, then the conclusion and your footnotes (if
any) and links.
Or if your essay is elsewhere you can post your pointer here. This is the
policy which was in effect before and now that we have finished the
testing phase for the new ecartis list that is the policy once again.
When your essay analyzes and answers (without the quotes) a previous paper
presented here, it should be factual, not emotional - though it is
perfectly all right to say this is my opinion. Everyone is entitled to
that. But for your paper to be really worthwhile and valuable it should be
quotable and the information found there should be dependable and that
means it can be fact checked and found not lacking. Even with all that,
there can be some disagreement, but that is because rational argumentation
hardly is ever rational.
Reason is a testable concept and your hypothesis may or may not stand up.
Some people can be in the same room and see things much differently. Much
of what you consider truth is an abstraction and depends a very great deal
on experience and personal pain and awareness. Some may simply lack the
ability to metabolize the facts and without being the subject and object
of the conditions being explained and analyzed may never be able to sift
through information and separate out the truth. That is why this is a
symposium and not a chat line or debating society. Those things don't
work. Not here. Not anywhere.
Here we seek the truth, -- or at least get as close to it as you can
because often the truth is more abstraction than real or true. We want to
understand why others reach the conclusions they do - not on common; that
is, prevailing ideas and views, but with conclusions that challenge those
prevailing wrong ideas. That is an understanding some will never attain
but that is the endeavor.
And I think we have failed. I think this and mailing lists today,
including this one, but for that handful which does lower the level of
discourse, are irrelevant, in which case, why bother?
Hank Roth
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