As for Jefferson's writings... You understand that not everything Jefferson wrote automatically becomes "Law", right?
On Sep 19, 2:03 pm, ChattyDaisy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Church and State were never intended to mix. What a group of people > decide to believe in is their right. However, they don't have the > right to force people to believe in their beliefs. That's what makes > the USA special. People come here for opportunity, or should I say > used to come here for opportunity. This is not the country my > grandparents fled to with hope and determination. > > In 1802, President Jefferson wrote a letter to a group of Baptists in > Danbury, Connecticut, in which he declared that it was the purpose of > the First Amendment to build “a wall of separation between Church and > State.”15 In Reynolds v. United States,16 Chief Justice Waite for the > Court characterized the phrase as “almost an authoritative declaration > of the scope and effect of the amendment.” In its first encounters > with religion–based challenges to state programs, the Court looked to > Jefferson’s metaphor for substantial guidance.17 But a metaphor may > obscure as well as illuminate, and the Court soon began to emphasize > neutrality and voluntarism as the standard of restraint on > governmental action.18 [p.973]The concept of neutrality itself is “a > coat of many colors,”19 and three standards that could be stated in > objective fashion emerged as tests of Establishment Clause validity. > The first two standards were part of the same formulation. “The test > may be stated as follows: what are the purpose and the primary effect > of the enactment? If either is the advancement or inhibition of > religion then the enactment exceeds the scope of legislative power as > circumscribed by the Constitution. That is to say that to withstand > the strictures of the Establishment Clause there must be a secular > legislative purpose and a primary effect that neither advances nor > inhibits religion.”20 The third test is whether the governmental > program results in “an excessive government entanglement with > religion. The test is inescapably one of degree . . . [T]he questions > are whether the involvement is excessive, and whether it is a > continuing one calling for official and continuing surveillance > leading to an impermissible degree of entanglement.”21 In 1971 these > three tests were combined and restated in Chief Justice Burger’s > opinion for the Court in Lemon v. Kurtzman,22 and are frequently > referred to by reference to that case name. > > On Sep 18, 10:06 pm, "Vox Itar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 9:15 PM, You Can't Buy MI Water > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > > > > I feel dumb having to explain this to you... The problem is: No one > > > has ever told anyone that they CANNOT pray in schools, or address > > > "god" as their creator, or believe that the world is fucking flat. But > > > there is a large faction that wishes to FORCE unwilling persons into > > > participating in these rituals and FORCE them to buy into narrow > > > minded ideologies and philosophies. The only other choice they leave > > > is to be FORCED into be labeled a deviant and a heretic. > > > And I feel equally dumb having to explain this to you...the topic was > > whether or not the Constitution said anything about "separation of church > > and state." As anyone who actually bothers to read the Constitution knows, > > there is NOTHING in it about separating church from state. Furthermore, > > while I respect anyone's desire NOT to participate in prayer, you don't have > > a Constitutional right NOT to be offended in this country. What that means > > is that if you find yourself in the audience at a graduation ceremony and > > part of it includes a prayer, what you can do is get up and leave, and let > > the rest of us who are part of the Judeo-Christian ethic that founded this > > country participate in the longstanding traditions that have defined our > > American culture for 200+ years. And no, sorry, but the choice isn't only > > your paranoid statement "be labeled a deviant and a heretic." No one is > > FORCING you to pray. No one is even FORCING you to be there. If you truly > > are offended by the idea of faith in God, might I suggest you send me all > > the currency in your wallet. you know, the bills that have "IN GOD WE TRUST" > > printed across the top? I'll put it to good use, I promise. > > > This statement does NOT exist ANYWHERE in the Constitution: > > > "Separation of Church and State"- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. * Read the latest breaking news, and more. -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
