They were not traitors....They were honorable men, and the climate right now with those words is harmful Brine.
On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 7:40 PM, Brian Bednarek <bri...@gmail.com> wrote: > Whatever, they lost!!! I personally have no issue with honoring rebels in > their states, but the fact that they lost and were trying to break up the > union, for whatever reason, makes them traitors because they lost!!! > > On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 3:30 PM, Keith In Tampa <keithinta...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Ironically, I wrote this a couple of days ago; (I am in a battle with >> revisionist historians here in Tampa regarding our Confederate Memorial, >> which we won in the County Commission last week, but that hasn't stopped >> the revisionist historians, (Read: "Kinder, Gentler, More Tolerant, More >> Enlightened" Antifa-esque Moonbats) who have been chanting >> "Traitors/Racists/Traitors" now for months, among many other lies, but I >> digress. Here's what I wrote: >> >> *There was no treason XXXXXX;* >> >> *First, there is nothing within the Constitution that prohibits >> secession....(Secession by one or several States is not even addressed). If >> secession was not illegal, then no Confederate soldier, Confederate >> politician or leader could be guilty of treason. * >> >> *Moreover, Southerners were required to sign a loyalty oath, in order to >> regain their American citizenship, so therefore all southerners were not >> “citizens” at the time of their struggle for independence, and therefore, >> no secessionist southerner could “legally” be held or charged for treason.* >> >> >> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 2:56 PM, Brian Bednarek <bri...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> The losers are always the traitors ... only the winners get to write >>> history!!! >>> >>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 8:39 AM, Travis <baconl...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> http://tinyurl.com/ycjkyuloWere Confederate Generals Traitors? >>>> >>>> [image: Description: Walter E. Williams] >>>> <http://www.cnsnews.com/author/walter-e-williams> >>>> >>>> By Walter E. Williams <http://www.cnsnews.com/author/walter-e-williams> >>>> | June 27, 2017 | 8:37 AM EDT >>>> >>>> [image: Description: >>>> http://www.cnsnews.com/s3/files/styles/content_40p/s3/confederate_general_stonewall_jackson_dod_photo-sgt._1st_class_raymond_j._piper_soldiers_live.jpg?itok=pxY6cVt4] >>>> >>>> At the 150th anniversary of the Civil War’s Battle of Chancellorsville, >>>> a Confederate re-enactor issues orders to troops to get them into position >>>> during the re-enactment of Maj. Gen. Stonewall Jackson’s flank attack >>>> against the Union XI Corps. (DOD Photo/Sgt. 1st Class Raymond J. Piper, >>>> Soldiers Live) >>>> >>>> My "Rewriting American History" column of a fortnight ago, about the >>>> dismantling of Confederate monuments, generated considerable mail. >>>> >>>> Some argued there should not be statues honoring traitors such as >>>> Robert E. Lee, Stonewall Jackson and Jefferson Davis, who fought against >>>> the Union. Victors of wars get to write the history, and the history they >>>> write often does not reflect the facts. Let's look at some of the facts and >>>> ask: Did the South have a right to secede from the Union? If it did, we >>>> can't label Confederate generals as traitors. >>>> >>>> Article 1 of the Treaty of Paris (1783), which ended the war between >>>> the Colonies and Great Britain, held "New Hampshire, Massachusetts Bay, >>>> Rhode Island and Providence Plantations, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, >>>> Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina >>>> and Georgia, to be free sovereign and Independent States." Representatives >>>> of these states came together in Philadelphia in 1787 to write a >>>> constitution and form a union. >>>> >>>> During the ratification debates, Virginia's delegates said, "The powers >>>> granted under the Constitution being derived from the people of the United >>>> States may be resumed by them whensoever the same shall be perverted to >>>> their injury or oppression." The ratification documents of New York and >>>> Rhode Island expressed similar sentiments. >>>> >>>> At the Constitutional Convention, a proposal was made to allow the >>>> federal government to suppress a seceding state. James Madison, the "Father >>>> of the Constitution," rejected it. The minutes from the debate paraphrased >>>> his opinion: "A union of the states containing such an ingredient (would) >>>> provide for its own destruction. The use of force against a state would >>>> look more like a declaration of war than an infliction of punishment and >>>> would probably be considered by the party attacked as a dissolution of all >>>> previous compacts by which it might be bound." >>>> >>>> America's first secessionist movement started in New England after the >>>> Louisiana Purchase in 1803. Many were infuriated by what they saw as an >>>> unconstitutional act by President Thomas Jefferson. The movement was led by >>>> Timothy Pickering of Massachusetts, George Washington's secretary of war >>>> and secretary of state. He later became a congressman and senator. "The >>>> principles of our Revolution point to the remedy — a separation," Pickering >>>> wrote to George Cabot in 1803, for "the people of the East cannot reconcile >>>> their habits, views, and interests with those of the South and West." His >>>> Senate colleague James Hillhouse of Connecticut agreed, saying, "The >>>> Eastern states must and will dissolve the union and form a separate >>>> government." This call for secession was shared by other prominent >>>> Americans, such as John Quincy Adams, Elbridge Gerry, Fisher Ames, Josiah >>>> Quincy III and Joseph Story. The call failed to garner support at the >>>> 1814-15 Hartford Convention. >>>> >>>> *Ad Feedback >>>> <http://imkfeedback.intermarkets.net/adfeedback/form.htm?Plcmt=538181230&ATFlgt=&Ntwk=&Refer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnsnews.com%2Fcommentary%2Fwalter-e-williams%2Fwere-confederate-generals-traitors%3Fmkt_tok%3DeyJpIjoiTnpReU1UTXpNREF3WkROaSIsInQiOiJvY0tGVjZNUW90MVJpTFowU2NwaStOVW1cL1hQT1BNODZIR2dZSkM5VVpOdlBtc3lFcStaSmIyUkxZSXFaY1dzNDY4MEJlVGZxTjRjVVFNKzRMUU14YVRnQjViWVAwNGJUaFdQcHU4XC9Tdm1peWNqamFqQlRxRE44TU9aYjFieXF4In0%253D&TID=64780>* >>>> >>>> The U.S. Constitution would have never been ratified — and a union >>>> never created — if the people of those 13 "free sovereign and Independent >>>> States" did not believe that they had the right to secede. Even on the eve >>>> of the War of 1861, unionist politicians saw secession as a right that >>>> states had. Rep. Jacob M. Kunkel of Maryland said, "Any attempt to preserve >>>> the union between the states of this Confederacy by force would be >>>> impractical and destructive of republican liberty." The Northern Democratic >>>> and Republican parties favored allowing the South to secede in peace. >>>> >>>> Northern newspapers editorialized in favor of the South's right to >>>> secede. New-York Tribune (Feb. 5, 1860): "If tyranny and despotism >>>> justified the Revolution of 1776, then we do not see why it would not >>>> justify the secession of Five Millions of Southrons from the Federal Union >>>> in 1861." The Detroit Free Press (Feb. 19, 1861): "An attempt to subjugate >>>> the seceded States, even if successful, could produce nothing but evil — >>>> evil unmitigated in character and appalling in extent." The New-York Times >>>> (March 21, 1861): "There is a growing sentiment throughout the North in >>>> favor of letting the Gulf States go." >>>> >>>> Confederate generals were fighting for independence from the Union just >>>> as George Washington and other generals fought for independence from Great >>>> Britain. Those who'd label Gen. Robert E. Lee as a traitor might also label >>>> George Washington as a traitor. I'm sure Great Britain's King George III >>>> would have agreed. >>>> >>>> *Walter E. Williams is a professor of economics at George Mason >>>> University* >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> [image: Avast logo] <https://www.avast.com/antivirus> >>>> >>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >>>> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus> >>>> >>>> >>>> <#m_-3008495439312603420_m_7466265010233121350_m_5015984190037569538_m_3678183275247281818_m_6828043766598097972_m_-9124989004459246295_m_3702047237473065611_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> >>>> >>>> >>>> __._,_.___ >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> Posted by: "Beowulf" <beow...@westerndefense.net> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> >>>> Visit Your Group >>>> <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/grendelreport/info;_ylc=X3oDMTJmN2RzZzd2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIwMTk0ODA2BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTMyMzY2NwRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzE0OTg1OTcyMTA-> >>>> >>>> >>>> [image: Yahoo! 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Register and vote in our polls. >>>> * Read the latest breaking news, and more. >>>> --- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "PoliticalForum" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to politicalforum+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> brine >>> http://brineb.blogspot.com/ >>> >>> -- >>> -- >>> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. >>> For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum >>> >>> * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ >>> * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. >>> * Read the latest breaking news, and more. >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "PoliticalForum" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to politicalforum+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- >> -- >> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. >> For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum >> >> * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ >> * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. >> * Read the latest breaking news, and more. >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "PoliticalForum" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to politicalforum+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > > -- > brine > http://brineb.blogspot.com/ > > -- > -- > Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. > For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum > > * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ > * It's active and moderated. 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