Ramakazee, Like I already pointed out to you already those are personal letters and thoughts. The Treaty of Tripoli was a treaty, a statement of official policy ratified by Congress.
1. The Constituion had not yet been written on April 18, 1775 when John Hancock made the statement you quote. Nor do you identify the statement as being contained in a personal letter or whatever. In fact, the United States did not exist on April 18, 1775. We were just insurgents rebeling against our king. 2. John Adams quote. As i previously pointed out, a personal letter. Again, the United States and the Constituion did not exist when it was written. 3. You do not identify the author of that quote, if it was contained in a personal letter, etc. 4. Nice speech. Expressing his personal opinions A treaty ratified by Congress is "a possible off-hand reference"? Whereas private letters expressing personal opinions, and one public speech by an individual, are carved-in-stone official policy of the government of the United States? Stop smokin' that shit lad, it's rotting your brain. On Nov 13, 7:54 am, Kamakazee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Starting with these? > > John Hancock: > "We recognize no sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus!" [April 18, > 1775] > > John Adams: > “ The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence > were the general principals of Christianity… I will avow that I > believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity > are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.” > • “[July 4th] ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance by > solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty.” > –John Adams in a letter written to Abigail on the day the Declaration > was approved by Congress > > "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It > is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." --October 11, > 1798 > > Oh my God, did he say "moral" and "religious"???? > > John Quincy Adams: > • “Why is it that, next to the birthday of the Savior of the world, > your most joyous and most venerated festival returns on this day [the > Fourth of July]?" “Is it not that, in the chain of human events, the > birthday of the nation is indissolubly linked with the birthday of the > Savior? That it forms a leading event in the progress of the Gospel > dispensation? Is it not that the Declaration of Independence first > organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer's > mission upon earth? That it laid the cornerstone of human government > upon the first precepts of Christianity"? > --1837, at the age of 69, when he delivered a Fourth of July speech at > Newburyport, Massachusetts > > Listen, I could do this all day. For every inference of some possible > off hand reference you post to the contrary I can post 10 direct, > specific quotes contradicting yours. > > Are we square? > > On Nov 12, 3:59 pm, Hollywood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Ramakazee, > > > Explain how my comparison of private opinions differ from public > > opinions expressed in the capacity as a national office holder is > > nonsensical. > > > Never been to D.C. Seen pictures, documantaries and movies of tourists > > standing in front of them getting their pictures taken. Symbolism for > > the masses, not official statements of U.S policy lad. > > > Don't run away, try harder. Your rolling over and giving up like the > > Ram's defensive line. LMAO! > > > On Nov 12, 3:44 pm, Kamakazee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > It's only difficult because you argue a nonsensical position. > > > > Have you been to DC? "tourist attractions"???. > > > > I think you're referring to the Smithsonian's exhibit on Uranus. > > > > On Nov 12, 3:39 pm, Hollywood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Ramakazee, > > > > > Sure you can, primarily in their PERSONAL LETTERS to friends and > > > > associates. And i can find as many from other FF's that do not support > > > > religion, all depends on WHICH FF I dig up and at WHAT point in his > > > > life. > > > > Monuments? Tourists attractions lad. NOT official documents stating > > > > federal Govt. policy. You understand that a Treaty has to be ratified > > > > by Congress, right? > > > > Is is beyond you to understand that a man might have a personal > > > > opinion that is quite different from an opinion he might hold as a > > > > public official when his/her decisions might very well impact on the > > > > entire country? Is this too difficult for you to understand? > > > > > On Nov 12, 2:16 pm, Kamakazee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > For every "Treaty of Tripoli" snippet you dig up (and I suspect there > > > > > aren't many) I can pull up 10 snippets directly related to the faith/ > > > > > belief/religions the found fathers expressed in other writings. And > > > > > produce 10 pictures of monuments in DC referring to each. > > > > > > PS. Of course the Establishment Clause is intended to prevent the > > > > > establishment, by the govt, of any state sponsored religion. And of > > > > > course one is free to chose no religion, but it's not specifically > > > > > stated in the USC, that was my point. > > > > > > On Nov 12, 1:39 pm, Hollywood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > Ramakazee, > > > > > > > Please tell me you're not this dense. > > > > > > The constituion specifically forbids the establishment of ANY state > > > > > > religion. Look it up. > > > > > > Now, if there IS no officially sanctioned religion that means you > > > > > > can > > > > > > never be "punished" for not following the "approved" religion as no > > > > > > such thing exists. That, of course means you are not required to > > > > > > practice ANY religion. The end result or effect is to make one > > > > > > "free" > > > > > > from religion is one so chooses. > > > > > > Regarding a specific religion such as Christianity the U.S. Govt. > > > > > > made > > > > > > a clear statement in the Treaty of Tripoli signed and ratified in > > > > > > 1797 > > > > > > "as the Government of the United States is NOT, in any sense founded > > > > > > on the Christian religion". John Adams was president at the time, > > > > > > most > > > > > > of our "Founding Fathers" were still living. Just Google "treaty of > > > > > > Tripoli" if you doubt my word and read the damn thing. > > > > > > > That enough help for you? Need more? > > > > > > > On Nov 12, 11:56 am, Kamakazee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Sorta, but where is that found? In the freedom of expression > > > > > > > clause? > > > > > > > Maybe the establishment clause? > > > > > > > > Help a guy out here. > > > > > > > > On Nov 12, 9:14 am, Hollywood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > mark, > > > > > > > > > It guarantee freedom FROM religion as much as it guarantees > > > > > > > > freedom to > > > > > > > > practice a given religion of choice. Anyone try to stop you from > > > > > > > > practicing your religion lately? > > > > > > > > > On Nov 12, 5:53 am, mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > try reading the constitution just one time. you will find > > > > > > > > > that peskt > > > > > > > > > 1st amendment that provides for the freedom of religion. all > > > > > > > > > religions. I realize libs, and nobama will try and rewrite > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > constitution in their pagan image, but as of now it allows > > > > > > > > > for freedom > > > > > > > > > of religion. > > > > > > > > > > On Nov 12, 5:05 am, "mike [move on] 532" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > So who defines ethical behavior these days? > > > > > > > > > > good question ! i don't believe we a religious cleric or > > > > > > > > > > evangelical > > > > > > > > > > fanatic setting governmental policy for the country . > > > > > > > > > > On Nov 12, 4:46 am, rigsy03 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > So who defines ethical behavior these days? Aristotle was > > > > > > > > > > > a good > > > > > > > > > >ading the constitution just one time. > beginning- pre-Jesus. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Nov 12, 2:40 am, "mike [move on] 532" <[EMAIL > > > > > > > > > > > PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Keep Religion Personal, Not Political > > > > > > > > > > > > --http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/Davidow/59 > > > > > > > > > > > > People really have to stop referring to this country as > > > > > > > > > > > > a Christian > > > > > > > > > > > > nation. The founders took great pains to avoid > > > > > > > > > > > > incorporating religious > > > > > > > > > > > > references into the Constitution, even going so far as > > > > > > > > > > > > to state > > > > > > > > > > > > plainly that no religious test should ever be > > > > > > > > > > > > considered a > > > > > > > > > > > > prerequisite for holding office. Somewhere along the > > > > > > > > > > > > line things have > > > > > > > > > > > > gone way off track, as conservative groups assume they > > > > > > > > > > > > have a right to > > > > > > > > > > > > define the country's core values and to dictate > > > > > > > > > > > > acceptable behavior > > > > > > > > > > > > for everyone else.- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. 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