We have a Democracy bub... You know, government BY the people and FOR the People... But the LW loves to ignore this -- note the actions of Gay "Rights" Activists would demand you accept a vote that goes their way, but otherwise, they demand a revote... Democracy is NOT a government where you only have to accept the votes you like...
On Nov 14, 4:03 pm, Hollywood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > jgg, > > lots of people want lots of things. > > On Nov 14, 1:52 pm, jgg1000a <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Maybe Hollywood the reason to support Religious Expression in the > > Public Square is because the vast majority of the people WANT IT... > > And that simple fact is something you seemingly can not fathom in this > > argument... > > > On Nov 14, 12:26 pm, Hollywood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > mike, > > > > And give the old anchor-clanker a fat CEEEE-GAR. Dead on! > > > That is the ONLY reason a govt. would support or advocate any religion > > > over another, or all others. > > > > On Nov 14, 1:45 am, "mike [move on] 532" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > wrote: > > > > > One question I have is why would a state or nation WANT an official > > > > religion? > > > > the answer to that would be to better control the public ! > > > > > On Nov 13, 5:54 pm, Hollywood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > jgg, > > > > > > Most interesting. Secularists have no intention of denying any and all > > > > > religious expression. Where did you get that idea? Are you talking > > > > > about individuals, whom have been described as secularists, expressing > > > > > such a personal opinion? > > > > > One question I have is why would a state or nation WANT an official > > > > > religion? > > > > > > On Nov 13, 3:23 pm, jgg1000a <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > No. Today the issue is where does a "state" religion end and "free > > > > > > exercise of religion" begin... So a student led prayer can be > > > > > > Constitutional while a teacher run prayer is not... Again, > > > > > > Secularists wish to expand on this to deny any and all religious > > > > > > expression (contrary to a vast majority of American opinion) And > > > > > > this thoroughout our history has changed... Now in France, the > > > > > > government has the right to deny any "religious expression" in > > > > > > deems > > > > > > fit... Two very different models... > > > > > > >http://books.google.com/books?id=YoI14vYA8r0C&pg=PA425&lpg=PA425&dq=m... > > > > > > > On Nov 13, 2:54 pm, Hollywood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > jgg, > > > > > > > > Was a suit filed, did the SCOTUS hear it and make a ruling? > > > > > > > > On Nov 13, 12:52 pm, jgg1000a <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > And what a shame the Mass. HAD a offical state church until > > > > > > > > 1838... > > > > > > > > Yet it was NOT declared unConstitutional... The theory is > > > > > > > > that that > > > > > > > > NATIOANAL government would not setablish any particilar sect as > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > State Church... Many folks have tried to expand that > > > > > > > > definition into > > > > > > > > removing religion from the Public Square... Which the 1st > > > > > > > > Amendment > > > > > > > > clear DOES NOT do... > > > > > > > > > On Nov 13, 12:57 pm, Hollywood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Ramakazee, > > > > > > > > > > What a shame the Constituion had not yet been signed when > > > > > > > > > these > > > > > > > > > statements were made. Some were made before the United States > > > > > > > > > had even > > > > > > > > > won it's revolution. The sole exception being George > > > > > > > > > Washington's > > > > > > > > > farewell speech. Even then he only mentions "religious > > > > > > > > > people" and > > > > > > > > > does not specify which religion. Guess that wasn't important > > > > > > > > > to him. > > > > > > > > > Just to help you out in the future the Constituion was signed > > > > > > > > > 9/17/1787 and the 1st Ammendment, which this conversation is > > > > > > > > > supposed > > > > > > > > > to be about, was ratified dec. 15, 1791. Anything before that > > > > > > > > > was just > > > > > > > > > some guys opinion. > > > > > > > > > > We are ALL "braddah's" in the eyes of God my lad. > > > > > > > > > > On Nov 13, 11:26 am, Kamakazee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Lemme help you braddah: > > > > > > > > > > > George Washington: > > > > > > > > > > > Farewell Address: The name of American, which belongs to > > > > > > > > > > you, in your > > > > > > > > > > national capacity, must always exalt the just pride of > > > > > > > > > > Patriotism, > > > > > > > > > > more than any appellation derived from local > > > > > > > > > > discriminations. With > > > > > > > > > > slight shades of difference, you have the same religion" > > > > > > > > > > ...and later: > > > > > > > > > > "...reason and experience both forbid us to expect, that > > > > > > > > > > national > > > > > > > > > > morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle..." > > > > > > > > > > > “ It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > Bible.” > > > > > > > > > > > “What students would learn in American schools above all is > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > religion of Jesus Christ.” [speech to the Delaware Indian > > > > > > > > > > Chiefs May > > > > > > > > > > 12, 1779] > > > > > > > > > > > "To the distinguished character of patriot, it should be > > > > > > > > > > our highest > > > > > > > > > > glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian" > > > > > > > > > > [May 2, > > > > > > > > > > 1778, at Valley Forge] > > > > > > > > > > > Uncle? > > > > > > > > > > > On Nov 13, 11:08 am, Kamakazee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Holly, still waiting. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Nov 13, 7:55 am, Kamakazee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > How many treaties has the US had since its inception? > > > > > > > > > > > > You grab a line > > > > > > > > > > > > out of one and act as if you've struck gold. > > > > > > > > > > > > > You've got nothing. Even less then that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Nov 12, 5:49 pm, Hollywood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gaar, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Too late to save you boy, he's left the field. > > > > > > > > > > > > > What you are talking about lad is a official > > > > > > > > > > > > > document, you know like a > > > > > > > > > > > > > TREATY, that is ON display. And that document dosen't > > > > > > > > > > > > > say a fucking > > > > > > > > > > > > > thing about religion other than that this country > > > > > > > > > > > > > will NOT have an > > > > > > > > > > > > > official one. Yep, I checked, right there in the > > > > > > > > > > > > > First Ammendment. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Nov 12, 4:02 pm, Gaar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One of those "diplays" is of the U.S. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Constitution... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As many others just quote from it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Which isn't "U.S. Policy", it should be the Fucking > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Law of the Land. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your ignorance on the matter notwithstanding. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Nov 12, 1:59 pm, Hollywood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramakazee, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Explain how my comparison of private opinions > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > differ from public > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > opinions expressed in the capacity as a national > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > office holder is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nonsensical. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Never been to D.C. Seen pictures, documantaries > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and movies of tourists > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > standing in front of them getting their pictures > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > taken. Symbolism for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the masses, not official statements of U.S policy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lad. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't run away, try harder. Your rolling over and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving up like the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ram's defensive line. LMAO! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Nov 12, 3:44 pm, Kamakazee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's only difficult because you argue a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nonsensical position. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Have you been to DC? "tourist attractions"???. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think you're referring to the Smithsonian's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > exhibit on Uranus. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Nov 12, 3:39 pm, Hollywood <[EMAIL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramakazee, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure you can, primarily in their PERSONAL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > LETTERS to friends and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > associates. And i can find as many from other > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > FF's that do not support > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > religion, all depends on WHICH FF I dig up > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and at WHAT point in his > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Monuments? Tourists attractions lad. NOT > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > official documents stating > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > federal Govt. policy. You understand that a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Treaty has to be ratified > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > by Congress, right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is is beyond you to understand that a man > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > might have a personal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > opinion that is quite different from an > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > opinion he might hold as a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > public official when his/her decisions might > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > very well impact on the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > entire country? Is this too difficult for you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to understand? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Nov 12, 2:16 pm, Kamakazee <[EMAIL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For every "Treaty of Tripoli" snippet you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dig up (and I suspect there > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aren't many) I can pull up 10 snippets > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > directly related to the faith/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > belief/religions the found fathers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > expressed in other writings. And > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > produce 10 pictures of monuments in DC > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > referring to each. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PS. Of course the Establishment Clause is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > intended to prevent the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > establishment, by the govt, of any state > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sponsored religion. And of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > course one is free to chose no religion, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but it's not specifically > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > stated in the USC, that was my point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Nov 12, 1:39 pm, Hollywood <[EMAIL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramakazee, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please tell me you're not this dense. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The constituion specifically forbids the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > establishment of ANY state > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > religion. Look it > > ... > > read more » --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. * Read the latest breaking news, and more. -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
