"What was important, perhaps, was not that the beggar was drunk and reeling, but that he was mounted on his horse, and however unsteadily, was going somehwere." ---Thomas Clayton Wolfe, from "You Can't Go Home Again"
I think I'd rather try something than nothing. But I appreciate the fact that you take the time to present your case and your thoughts in a rational, intelligent manner, rather than simply rely on soundbytes from talk show hosts for your argument. On Feb 10, 3:26 pm, frankg <[email protected]> wrote: > I understand, but I tend to think MA Johnson's post about doing > nothing might be closer to the right answer than this. > > We can't continue the course we have been on, I agree. But doing > 'something different', if it is the wrong thing, could potentially > make matters even worse. The Federal Government is the most corrupt, > ineffective, wasteful organization in the world. Putting huge amounts > of borrowed money in their hands to 'spend wisely' scares the shit out > of me. Coupled with the fact that they are listing many, many projects > in this bill that I think are not even remotely related to stimulating > the economy, makes me extremely uncomfortable with this bill. > > Perhaps this is moot as the bill will pass. But I'm willing to bet > that the $350B to the banks is just the tip of the iceberg. $350B and > what did we get... nothing. Talk about buyer's remorse! > > On Feb 10, 1:51 pm, wncs <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > My point is that at least the Obama administration is doing something, > > and something different. Continuing on the course of the past 8 years > > is a road to disaster. > > > On Feb 10, 1:36 pm, frankg <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >> "The real issue is not with what he said, but that he said it. " > > > > > I'll give you that...but just ignore the elephant in the room, ok? > > > > OK :) > > > > >> "Funny thing about the stimulus effort is it really is exactly what > > > >> the Bush administration was doing - out of control spending." > > > > > I believe there is a difference in spending billions overseas and > > > > investing it at home. We've torn down and rebuilt Iraq's > > > > infrastructure, now it's time to take care of our own. > > > > Under the Bush administration there was wild domestic spending as well > > > as spending in Iraq. You can’t rack up the deficit they did without > > > that. > > > > >> "Well, fine.. they SHOULD be in a modern school, > > > >> and if their quality of education improves in the process, that's > > > >> great. But HOW does this stimulate the economy?" > > > > > You can't put a price on an education, and you may not see the > > > > benefits immediately, but they exist. > > > > I’m not disputing education is a top priority and yes, down the road > > > superior education helps us. But that’s NOT what the stimulus package > > > is supposed to be about. Projects such as this should be covered under > > > the normal budget, within a balanced budget framework. The stimulus > > > package must remain focused and not include these types of projects > > > that do not meet the criteria. > > > > >> "A stimulus program has got to be able to kick start processes that > > > >> can then become self-sustaining." > > > > > Please tell me how sending our money to the Middle East helps sustain > > > > our economy. > > > > It doesn’t and I never said it does, nor do I see the relevance of > > > your comment to mine. I’m talking specifically about elements > > > contained in the stimulus package and what the criteria should be for > > > inclusion. Spending money in the ME is NOT in the stimulus package. > > > > On Feb 10, 1:18 pm, wncs <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > "The real issue is not with what he said, but that he said it. " > > > > > I'll give you that...but just ignore the elephant in the room, ok? > > > > > "Funny thing about the stimulus effort is it really is exactly what > > > > the > > > > Bush administration was doing - out of control spending." > > > > > I believe there is a difference in spending billions overseas and > > > > investing it at home. We've torn down and rebuilt Iraq's > > > > infrastructure, now it's time to take care of our own. > > > > > "Well, fine.. they SHOULD be in a modern school, > > > > and if their quality of education improves in the process, that's > > > > great. But HOW does this stimulate the economy?" > > > > > You can't put a price on an education, and you may not see the > > > > benefits immediately, but they exist. > > > > > "A stimulus program has got to be able to kick start processes that > > > > can > > > > then become self-sustaining." > > > > > Please tell me how sending our money to the Middle East helps sustain > > > > our economy. > > > > > On Feb 10, 1:05 pm, frankg <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > I agree what Biden said has an element of truth. If the answers were > > > > > obvious then anyone could be President. The real issue is not with > > > > > what he said, but that he said it. > > > > > > Funny thing about the stimulus effort is it really is exactly what the > > > > > Bush administration was doing - out of control spending. If government > > > > > spending would ignite the economy then the economy should have been > > > > > blazing like a super nova under Bush. My fear is there will be a brief > > > > > improvement, but at the end of the two years, without continued > > > > > spending by the government, we'll be right back where we are today but > > > > > with a much larger deficit than before. > > > > > > One example; from last night's speech, Obama was talking about a SC > > > > > school that was extremely old and how it's time these kids are taught > > > > > in a modern school. Well, fine.. they SHOULD be in a modern school, > > > > > and if their quality of education improves in the process, that's > > > > > great. But HOW does this stimulate the economy? Oh sure, it's a > > > > > construction job so for the time being it creates jobs. But once the > > > > > school is done those jobs are gone. The money has been spent and from > > > > > an economic perspective we are not at all improved. > > > > > > A stimulus program has got to be able to kick start processes that can > > > > > then become self-sustaining. Government spending on road and bridge > > > > > construction, schools, etc., is not self-sustaining. When the money > > > > > runs out the jobs are gone. That's my concern with this stimulus plan > > > > > - they are proposing to spend money where they feel it would be good > > > > > to spend money rather than spending money on things that will create > > > > > sustainable employment and growth. > > > > > > On Feb 10, 10:48 am, wncs <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Sadly, what Biden said may have some truth in it, although I > > > > > > question > > > > > > his putting an exact numeric percentage on the chance of failure. I > > > > > > think what he's saying is that no one has a crystal ball; no one > > > > > > knows > > > > > > with 100% certainty that the stimulus efforts will be that silver > > > > > > bullet we're looking for. But the point is, the Obama administration > > > > > > is doing *something*, and it is the best chance our economy has > > > > > > right > > > > > > now. > > > > > > I agree with your final paragraph though. > > > > > > > On Feb 10, 10:29 am, frankg <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Biden: "If we do everything right, if we do it with absolute > > > > > > > certainty, if we stand up there and we really make the tough > > > > > > > decisions, there's still a 30 percent chance we're going to get it > > > > > > > wrong." > > > > > > > Obama: "You know, I don't remember exactly what Joe was referring > > > > > > > to, > > > > > > > not surprisingly." > > > > > > > > I think it was a fair question to ask Obama, even though Biden > > > > > > > made > > > > > > > the comment, because it pertains to Obama's administration and the > > > > > > > expected performance of it according to Biden. Perhaps it wasn't > > > > > > > throwing him under a bus in the clinical sense, but damn... Obama > > > > > > > had > > > > > > > to be pissed he had to respond to this. And to think the Democrats > > > > > > > were making fun of Palin as VP choice. > > > > > > > > After 8 years of listening to Bush stumble his way thru speeches, > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > really is a pleasure to listen to someone as articulate as Obama. > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > just hope he doesn't have to spend an inordinate amount of time > > > > > > > having > > > > > > > to cover up for stupid Biden comments. > > > > > > > > On Feb 10, 9:57 am, wncs <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Perhaps the reporter should have asked Joe Biden what he meant > > > > > > > > when he > > > > > > > > spoke those words. I think that most people don't want to > > > > > > > > answer for > > > > > > > > the words of another, but I don't see how you call that throwing > > > > > > > > someone under the bus. > > > > > > > > > On Feb 10, 9:18 am, Philobealo <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > >http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/toby_harnden/blog/2009/02/10/barack_obam... > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. 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