KIT, Best ya' got? So sad.
On May 17, 11:20 am, Keith In Tampa <[email protected]> wrote: > On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 12:15 PM, VT VirtualTruth <[email protected] > > > > > wrote: > > > Frankly I really do not care what she knew or when she knew it. > > > She was the minority Senator sworn to secretcy and her only > > avenue of protest was to the Majority Senator or the White House. > > > Base on Cheney's current 'we did not torture' tour, I can not imagine > > Cheney paying any attention to protests, and the Republican > > Majority set the agenda's in committees, and they protected the > > Bush Administration. > > > So it comes down to this,... > > > Was there a crime committed. Did we torture. If the answer is yes, > > then let the truth commissions begin! > > > If you are confused about if we tortured, I suggest you consider > > the dead bodies of Prisoners head for questioning and the fact > > that a doctor NEEDED to be present during questioning. Do > > people really miss this blunt admission that damage was being > > inflicted! > > > On May 17, 7:29 am, "\"Lone Wolf\"" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > The lies of the CIA and Nancy Pelosi > > > 16 May 2009 > > > > Democratic Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi charges the CIA with > > > lying to her about torture in a 2002 briefing, a charge denied by the > > > agency. What it is certain is that she and the Democrats have lied > > > systematically to the American people to obscure their complicity in > > > the crimes of the Bush administration. > > > > On Thursday, Pelosi called a Capitol Hill press conference in an > > > attempt to clear the air about what she was told by the Central > > > Intelligence Agency and what she knew about torture. > > > > A CIA report released last week claimed that in a September 2002 > > > briefing, the agency had described torture methods, including > > > waterboarding, and informed Pelosi and her Republican counterpart, > > > Congressman Porter Goss, that they were being employed against Abu > > > Zubaydah, who by that time had been waterboarded at least 83 times. > > > > While Pelosi had given the impression that she knew nothing about this > > > torture because the CIA failed to inform her in the 2002 briefing, it > > > then emerged that she had been told about the active use of > > > waterboarding in February 2003—just five months later—by her senior > > > aide based on a subsequent briefing. > > > > In her press conference, the House speaker claimed that at the 2002 > > > briefing, the CIA reported that the Justice Department had issued > > > memos arguing that waterboarding and other “enhanced interrogation > > > techniques” were legal, but were “not being employed.” > > > > Pelosi went on to acknowledge that after she was informed that the CIA > > > was torturing suspects in February 2003, she did nothing, leaving it > > > to her successor as the ranking Democrat on the House intelligence > > > committee, Congresswoman Jane Harman, to write a letter to the agency > > > “raising concerns.” > > > > Her entire story strains credulity. Even if what she says is true and > > > the CIA did not inform her in 2002 that it was torturing Zubaydah, did > > > she really believe that the agency’s briefers were describing methods > > > of torture and Justice Department memos justifying them because the > > > Bush administration did not intend to use them? > > > > Pelosi advanced another alibi. “Like all members of Congress who are > > > briefed on classified information,” she said. “I have signed oaths > > > pledging not to disclose any of that information. This is an oath I > > > have taken very seriously, and I’ve always abided by it.” > > > > Like all members of Congress, she also took an oath of office “to > > > support and defend the Constitution of the United States,” but clearly > > > that pledge took a back seat to defending the secrets of an agency > > > known throughout the world as Murder Inc. Her oath would not have > > > stopped her from denouncing torture in 2003, if she had really opposed > > > it. > > > > It should be recalled that in 1971 Alaska Democratic Senator Mike > > > Gravel, an opponent of the Vietnam War, took to the floor of the US > > > Senate to read into the record the so-called Pentagon Papers, a > > > collection of secret documents on the war, after the Justice > > > Department had obtained injunctions against their publication by the > > > New York Times and Washington Post. Gravel relied on a clause in the > > > US Constitution that protects members of Congress from arrest for > > > anything said from the floor of the House or Senate. > > > > It would not occur to Pelosi to invoke this constitutional privilege > > > because she did not oppose torture. It was not her oath of secrecy > > > that kept her quiet but her class position. Like the rest of the well- > > > heeled and thoroughly vetted members of the House and Senate > > > intelligence panels, she defends the CIA because the agency’s > > > assassinations, torture, kidnappings and other crimes are carried out > > > in defense of the interests of America’s ruling financial oligarchy. > > > > This is what makes all the more significant her statement at the press > > > conference that the CIA had lied to her and that “they mislead us all > > > the time.” It is an indication of the extent to which the attempt by > > > the Obama administration to make a partial disclosure of the Bush > > > administration’s record on torture and then “move forward” has thrown > > > the Democrats into crisis and opened up a bitter internecine struggle > > > within the state apparatus itself. > > > > Pelosi’s statement provoked a terse memo from Leon Panetta, Obama’s > > > appointee as CIA director. > > > > “The political debates about interrogation reached a new decibel level > > > yesterday when the CIA was accused of misleading Congress,” he said. > > > “CIA officers briefed truthfully on the interrogation of Abu Zubaydah. > > > It is not our policy or practice to mislead Congress. That is against > > > our laws and our values.” > > > > In other words, the Democratic head of the CIA is defending the > > > practices carried out under the Bush administration and calling the > > > Democratic leader of the House of Representatives a liar. Nothing > > > could expose more clearly the role of the CIA and the national > > > security establishment as a virtual state-within-a-state, answerable > > > to no one. > > > > Its power has been strengthened by the two wars of aggression launched > > > under Bush and continued under Obama as well as the array of > > > repressive legislation from the Patriot Act to the legalization of > > > domestic wiretapping, illegal detentions and kangaroo military > > > commissions, all passed with Democratic support. > > > > It is this record that has emboldened the Republican right, which has > > > seized on Pelosi’s contortions on torture to make the case that nobody > > > in Washington has clean hands and any real investigation of torture > > > and the other crimes of the Bush administration would drag in the > > > Democrats as well. > > > > The point is valid, but it only underscores the fact that these crimes > > > were the product not merely of the rabid politics of the Republican > > > right, but of the deep decay of American democracy under the pressure > > > of capitalism’s crisis and the unprecedented growth of social > > > inequality. This is why they were supported by both major parties, the > > > media and the entire political establishment. > > > > Clearly, the Democratic Party and the Obama administration are > > > thoroughly compromised and cannot be entrusted with any investigation > > > of the crimes in which they were complicit. Any congressional > > > hearings, blue ribbon panel or “truth commission” as proposed by > > > Pelosi would be a whitewash. > > > > This cannot be accepted. The investigation and prosecution of all > > > those responsible for torture, wars of aggression and the other crimes > > > carried out over the last eight years is vital for the defense of > > > democratic rights and the moral health of society. If they are not > > > investigated and prosecuted, these crimes will continue and be turned > > > increasingly against the struggles of working people in the US > > > itself. > > > > The fight to hold accountable those who ordered, participated and > > > covered up for these crimes can only be seriously undertaken by > > > working people themselves as part of the struggle to build their own > > > mass political movement fighting for socialism. > > > > Bill Van Auken > > > On May 17, 7:40 am, "d.b.baker" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > [Q] - Uh-oh. Nancy Pelosi’s performance at her press conference re > > > > waterboarding has raised, according to the Washington Post, “troubling > > > > new questions about the Speaker’s credibility.” The dreaded T-word: > > > > “troubling.” > > > > > I doubt it will “trouble” the media for long, or at least not to the > > > > extent of bringing the Pelosi speakership to a sudden end — and > > > > needless to say I’m all in favor of Nancy remaining the face of > > > > congressional Democrats until November 2010. But her inconsistent > > > > statements do suggest a useful way of looking at America’s tortured > > > > “torture” debate: > > > > > Question: What does Dick Cheney think of waterboarding? > > > > > He’s in favor of it. He was in favor of it then, he’s in favor of it > > > > now. He doesn’t think it’s torture, and he supports having it on the > > > > books as a vital option. On his recent TV appearances, he sometimes > > > > gives the impression he would not be entirely averse to performing a > > > > demonstration on his interviewers, but generally he believes its use > > > > should be a tad more circumscribed. He is entirely consistent. > > > > > Question: What does Nancy Pelosi think of waterboarding? > > > > > No, I mean really. Away from the cameras, away from the Capitol, in > > > > the deepest > > ... > > read more » > > BeatDeadHorse.gif > 174KViewDownload- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. * Read the latest breaking news, and more. -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
