Travis, An unloaded pistol is nothing but a very expensive club. On Jul 28, 12:09 pm, Travis <[email protected]> wrote: > They carry guns (openly) > ************************************************** > > A long, but *excellent* read on open carry in California! Yes, open carry > is allowed if the handgun is unloaded. You can have a loaded magazine on > you, but it can't be in the gun. Sounds like fun for my next visit to > California:http://tinyurl.com/mnvsr6 > > sandiegoreader.com > They Carry Guns > > By Rosa Jurjevics | Published Wednesday, July 15, 2009 > > It's a beautiful day in Pacific Beach as Nate approaches the bronze pelican > statue on the boardwalk. He's slight and blond, spectacled and clad in > jeans and an army-green T-shirt. He squints. The sun's so bright overhead > that he is prompted to spray a fine mist of sunblock over his fair skin to > stave off a burn. > > I've never met Nate before, but I know it's him (a) because I've seen his > picture and (b) due to the handgun that sits on a holster against his hip. > I'm about to get up from where I'm sitting and introduce myself when > someone else beats me to the punch. A scraggly-looking beachgoer, a man of > indeterminable age because he is so weather- beaten, approaches. > > "What's that for, bro?" he asks, pointing in the direction of Nate's gun, a > Taurus Tracker .44 Magnum revolver. > > Before Nate can answer, the man continues. > > "There are surfers at the beach looking to party, and you show up with > that? That's not right. Love life! Be mellow!" > > This is when I walk up and introduce myself. The beachgoer looks at me for > a moment with wild blue eyes, then looks back at Nate, as Nate is beginning > to explain what he will have to reiterate time and time again to concerned > and/or interested parties: he is open carrying. > > The term "open carrying" refers to one who is in possession of a holstered, > unloaded firearm on his or her person, displayed in plain view. Nate begins > to explain the legalities of this to the beachgoer when Sean approaches, > video camera in tow. In shades, a green shirt with double-breast pockets, > green cargo pants, and a Sig Sauer P229 holstered on his hip, Sean looks > not unlike a police officer. > > The beachgoer does a double take. > > "Another one!" he exclaims, as Sean greets us warmly. > > The beachgoer, incredulous, excuses himself -- with one final stare -- to > go "get baked." > > Soon we are joined by a third open carrier, Sam, who is Nate's older > brother. He's a tall fellow in jeans and a T-shirt, and his gun, a Glock > 17C 9mm semiautomatic pistol, sits squarely in a black holster, handle well > visible against the blue of his shirt. > > And now it's my turn. > > As the others deal with the beachgoer, who has returned, Nate and I take > off to his car, where he removes from the depths of his trunk a silver > handgun with a wooden handle. This is a Ruger Single Six .22 revolver, he > tells me, as he slides it into the borrowed holster I have fixed to my > belt. The gun is surprisingly heavy, nestled just below my waistline. > > Back at the boardwalk, it seems that Sam and Sean are getting nowhere with > the beachgoer, so we prepare to head out. > > First, I am given instructions on what to do if approached by the police. I > brace myself as Nate explains. > > "What's going to happen is, they're going to want to do a 12031(e) unloaded > check," he begins. "They'll say they want to check your weapon. You say, > 'Are you requesting or demanding?' If they say, 'Demanding,' you say, 'I > don't consent to any warrantless searches. But I'm not going to resist.' > And then you stick your hands out, they check your weapon, and it's done." > > Sounds easy enough, I figure. I've got my tape recorder ready, as open > carriers are urged, via websites like OpenCarry.org, to keep recording > devices on them while carrying to capture any interactions with police (and > civilians) they might have in case their rights are infringed upon. > > "You don't have to answer any other questions. You don't have to give them > your ID," Sam instructs. "It's technically an illegal search under the > Fourth Amendment. The Fourth Amendment says you have protection against > unreasonable search and seizure. If there's a woman pushing a baby stroller > down the boardwalk, that does not give the police the right to check if the > kid is kidnapped. So if you're in full compliance with the law, minding > your own business, they technically don't have the right to stop you to > check if your weapon is unloaded or loaded." > > Open carrying, Nate explains, is legal in San Diego and the rest of > California. > > "[The law says] you can't carry a loaded gun in an incorporated area," he > says. "This is an incorporated area." > > "Because San Diego is a corporation," Sam chimes in. > > "So then, [the law] says, 'Firearms carried openly in belt holsters are not > concealed within the meaning of this section,' " Nate continues, > referencing California Penal Code Section 12025(f), which outlines the > illegality of concealed carrying and what is and is not considered a > concealed firearm. > > "So there you have that," Nate continues. "And then case law says that ammo > next to the gun is not considered loaded. So, basically, you start out with > a great idea and it gets detracted down to what we have now." > > The nuances of gun laws in California, I find, are difficult. For example, > concealed carrying is not legal in San Diego (and all of California) > without a permit -- that much is abundantly clear -- and neither is > carrying a loaded gun. Having ammunition situated next to a firearm, > however, does not amount to "loaded," meaning that Nate, Sean, and Sam can > carry full magazines on their belts. > > The legalities involving open carry are dizzying, the restrictions > numerous. One cannot open carry 1000 feet from a school, for instance, or > in the "sterile area" of an airport or in a post office or a national park > (though it is legal in a national forest). > > And then there's the somewhat sticky issue of the Second Amendment. > > "Instead of [the Bill of Rights] being automatic, they did amendment- > by-amendment incorporation," Sam explains. "So now practically all the > amendments have been incorporated against the states except the Third, > because nobody's tried to quarter soldiers in [anyone's] house, and the > Second, because it hasn't happened yet." By "incorporated against the > states," Sam means that the U.S. Supreme Court has not ruled that the > amendment applies to the states. > > So if it's such a hassle, why open carry? > > As we walk, the trio explains. > > For Sam, 39, who works from home studying "history and behavioral economics > independently and try[ing] to figure out what's going to happen next before > everyone else," it's mostly about constitutional freedom, a cause he says > he's felt strongly about since childhood. He's been open carrying for about > seven months and heard about it through Nate and Calguns.net, a popular > online meeting place for California gun owners and enthusiasts. > > "I really believe, and I think that most thinking people believe, that we > are slowly losing our freedoms in this country," he says. "Everything's > become more and more restricted, and nobody seems to know what to do about > it. If we would just get back to following the Constitution, America would > again be the place it was intended to be, the place where everybody wanted > to come. This whole open-carry movement, for me, is really about more than > just guns; it's about liberty and what it means to be a free man." > > Nate, a 22-year-old human biology student, voices another issue: the lack > of CCW (concealed-carry weapon) permit issuance. A concealed- weapon license > allows one to have a concealed weapon on his or her person. In California, > Nate says, concealed-weapon licenses are most commonly issued to lawyers, > jewelers, and traveling doctors. > > "I knew I wasn't going to get a CCW permit. I'm not important enough -- I > don't make enough money, I don't have a good enough 'cause,' according to > California -- so I said, 'Well, I guess I'll just start open carrying,' " > he says. "Another reason I started doing it is that it's a political > statement. I'm not important enough for my right to self-defense, so what > we do is we just take it out in the open. This is what we have to do." > > Nate has been open carrying for about a year and heard about it on > Calguns.net. > > "I just started doing it," he says. "Read[ing] up, whatever I could do." > > Sean, a 32-year-old senior systems engineer, chimes in. > > "I've always been somewhat of a gun-rights activist," he says. "I'm really > in it more for the activism more than anything else. I've noticed that a > lot of the guys are younger, and the police seem to react differently to > folks who are in their 30s than to folks that are in their 20s. So I feel > it's a good idea to keep the reactions moderated a little bit." > > Sean has been open carrying for about a year, he says, and is also an > active member of Calguns.net. > > Most of the response the trio has gotten while open carrying has been > positive. > > "On the 28th, I'd say about two-thirds of the contact we had was 'Hey, > that's legal to do?' " Sean says, referencing an open-carry event held in > San Diego in February. "Not accusatory or anti -- either positive or just > requesting information." > > He pauses. > > "The people who were blue-collar guys or office workers or whatever, > they're more curious about stuff like this than people who are just out > there on the beach all day because they don't have an obligation to go be > somewhere else. I think that's probably the reason that there's sort of a > skew in the types of contact we've had today." > > As we walk and talk, a man in a red shirt passes us, his eyes obstructed by > wraparound shades. He turns around to face us. > > "You walking around with live ammo in those?" he asks, walking backward. > > "Not with live ammo in them," Sean replies amicably. > > "Do you have a permit for that?" the man asks. > > "You don't need one," says Sean. > > "I'll find out down here for you, 'kay?" the man asks, somewhat > rhetorically, as he hightails it down the boardwalk. > > "It's not Mexico, guys, you can't pull that shit off," he shouts, over his > shoulder. > > "Do you really think that guy is going to go to the cops?" I ask, once I'm > sure he's out of earshot. > > "Probably," says Sam. "And the cops will say, 'It's legal. You don't have > to like it, but it's legal.' " > > Turning back, walking into the sun, we decide it's time for food and > continue -- undisturbed -- to Mission Boulevard, where there's a small > Mexican restaurant with outdoor seating. > > San Diego open carriers, I discover, have had a few open-carry events here > in town, coordinated mostly via sites such as Calguns.net, OpenCarry.org, > and CaliforniaOpenCarry.org, where there are local forums in which members > discuss issues of gun ownership, gun rights, gun laws, and more. > > The last meet, at the time of this writing, was in February and took place > on the very boardwalk Nate, Sean, Sam, and I just traversed. The police > were well informed, and things went smoothly as an estimated 40 to 50 > people, open carriers and supporters alike, congregated beachside. > > At the Mexican restaurant, lunch proceeds normally, save for a few stares, > until I notice a large white-and-black SUV pull up in front of us. "Uh-oh," > I think. "Here we go." > > A male cop emerges, a tall man with a salt-and-pepper crew cut. He smiles > at us. > > "Howdy, folks. How're you all doing today?" he asks. > > "Fine," everybody responds. > > "I'm going to have to do a 12031(e) inspection on you and get out of your > hair," the cop says. > > "Are you requesting or demanding?" Nate asks. > > "I'm sorry?" asks the cop. > > "Are you requesting or demanding?" Nate repeats. > > The cop looks at him. > > "Well, I'll start with a request, but then I'll demand," he replies. > > "As long as you're demanding," says Nate. > > The cop starts with Sean. > > He has him face the opposite direction and goes around behind him, removing > Sean's gun. He checks for ammunition and, finding none, places the gun back > in its holster. > > The cop makes his way around the table. Each of the trio stands and, when > asked to be checked, pipes up with "Requesting or demanding?" > > When the cop gets to me, I gulp, even though I know my line. > > "You, ma'am, are carrying as well?" he asks. > > I nod, then jump right in. > > "Requesting or demanding?" I ask. > > "Requesting and then I'll be demanding," comes the reply. > > I stand, watching as he removes the gun from my hip. I can hear the > revolver's wheel turning as he checks the chamber for bullets. Then he > hands it back to me -- the first time I've handled a real handgun -- and I > slide it, if somewhat amateurishly, into the holster. > > "Okay," the cop says. "I appreciate your cooperation." > > Before he leaves, Sean asks if someone sent him over. > > "Actually, we had a radio call. I guess you were out on the boardwalk," the > cop replies. > > "I think I know the guy..." Sean says wryly. > > "I talked to one person that had called. He said you were headed south," > the cop says. "So we were looking for you. We appreciate your cooperation. > Have a good day." > > I glance around me and notice several cruisers are parked along the edge of > the Mexican restaurant's lot, plus the SUV. > > Nate turns to me. > > "You have just experienced the hassle of the open-carry movement," he says. > > "That guy was actually very good, very straightforward," Sean comments, as > the SUV and its entourage drive away. "He was not out to abuse rights, he > was not out to try and make anything up. He was just doing his job." > > This makes one cop stop for Sean, two for Sam, and three for Nate. > > And, of course, one for me. > > "It's all very complicated," I tell them, speaking of the various gun laws, > regulations, and restrictions, from state to federal, as we collect our > trash from lunch. > > Sam nods. > > "And if we just followed the Second Amendment the way it was written, none > of this would be necessary," he says. > > Shortly after our encounter with the cops, we part ways, agreeing to meet > up at a later time that night. Nate, Sean, and Sam are taking me to a local > firing range, and come evening, I will have fired my first gun. > > The range is located in a squat brown building with an American flag in the > window and a big neon sign bearing the word "GUNS" in all capitals. Inside > is a small series of booths separated by dividers. It's busy, and people in > groups wait their turns, snapping pictures, flashes going off in time to > the sound of the guns. The ground is littered with glittering brass shell > casings, and I can feel them through the soles of my shoes as I walk to my > appointed booth. > > Sean is my teacher for the evening, and he patiently goes over how to > handle the first guns I will shoot, a .22-caliber CZ Kadet and his .40- > caliber Sig Sauer P229. I try to remember, listening to his instructions > over the loud pops and bangs from neighboring rangegoers. I take a deep > breath. Eject the magazine. Click the slide back to make sure it's not > loaded. The CZ is heavy in my hands and heavier still as I slide a full > magazine inside and give it a firm tap with my hand. I position my hands, > making sure my grip is not too weak and my thumbs are not too low. My > finger slides over the trigger, pulls back. > > Pow! > > An explosion erupts, and the gun jerks back in my hands, shell ejecting > onto the floor; it drops and I don't see it. I'm transfixed. I try again, > trying not to close my eyes. The smell of gunpowder tickles my nose. > > I finish the clip, watching the holes that have appeared in the paper > target I was aiming at. They're nowhere near where they should be, but it's > not bad. > > Sean reels the target in and points to a cluster of holes around the bottom > of one of the bull's-eyes. It's a clover pattern, he says; it's good. > > "You should be proud of that," he says, over the din. I smile. > > At the end of the night, I have shot eight guns -- three handguns, one > carbine, and four rifles. The list is a litter of letters and numbers to > me. There are the CZ Kadet, Sig Sauer, and CZ 97B for handguns. The carbine > is an FN PS90. For rifles, I handle the Ruger Mini-14, the Kel- Tec SU-16CA > .223, the not-so-fearsome AR-15 .223 -- a gun that might be soon made > illegal -- that weighs so much I can barely hold it to my shoulder, and the > Ruger 10/22, a lightweight rifle without much recoil (kickback) that turns > out to be my favorite. (Though the range generally does not allow certain > types of rifles to be used, for the purpose of this article, we were > permitted to shoot the Kel-Tec SU-16CA and the AR-15.) > > The evening after my shooting adventure, I'm due to meet another open > carrier, Tom, at a coffee shop in Mission Valley. > > Tom is a neatly bearded gentleman with wire-rimmed glasses. Fresh from > work, it appears, he wears a dress shirt and black slacks along with his > Springfield Armory 1911 .45 that is barely visible on his belt. His wife > sits across from him, reading. > > Tom smiles as he introduces himself, assures me that I'm not too terribly > late, and offers me a coffee before we settle down to talk. > > While not new to gun ownership -- in fact, he's an avid collector -- Tom > has only been open carrying for a few months. He is a member of several of > the online forums previously mentioned, where he reads and responds to > various topics and discussions. > > Unlike Nate, Sam, and Sean, with whom he is acquainted, Tom has not been > stopped by many people, curious or otherwise. He speculates that, because > of his dress, most may take him for a plainclothes police officer. > > "They must think you've got a badge somewhere," I joke. > > "Could be," he agrees. "That's the first thought. But people need to be > aware that a citizen living in a free country is allowed to have liberty > and to do these things. And most people assume it's against the law." > > Tom began carrying mostly out of political reasons. > > "I got alarmed at how radically guns and gun owners are being vilified > across California and across the country," he says. "The laws are being > passed willy-nilly, some that don't even make sense, and it's time to start > pushing back against unfair, unjust laws." > > He, like the others, agrees that the Second Amendment needs to apply to the > states as well as at a federal level. He elaborates on a California case > recently heard by a three-judge panel of the U.S. Ninth Circuit Court that > tackles this issue, Nordyke v. King, in which Alameda County attempted (and > succeeded) in banning guns from its fairground in order to stop a gun show. > > "They started a legal action against the city. Another lawyer picked [it] > up and has been pursuing it for almost ten years on his own dime, [with] no > financial support. And what we're hoping it will do [is] incorporate the > Second Amendment to California." > > Tom, 56, also open carries for other reasons than political activism, > recognizing that it could be useful in an unsafe situation. "I look at it > like we've never had a fire in our house, but we have two fire > extinguishers," he says, and cites something he read in the news as one > example. In February of this year, in Los Angeles, he says, two men walked > into a cafe and shot seven people, then walked out. > > "Now, if they'd come up to that cafe and looked in the window and seen two > or three guys with a gun on their hip, wouldn't they have turned around and > gone someplace else?" Tom wonders aloud. "Or would they have gone in > anyway? The first responding officers heard the shots, but they weren't > able to get there in time to catch the guys. So the only one who's in a > position to do anything about it would be the people who are right there > getting shot at. And I'd like to ask those people sitting in the cafe if > they wished they'd had a gun when they saw those guys walk in the door." > > He makes the point that, in areas with stricter gun-control laws, crime is > higher. > > "[In] places where the laws allow the citizens to take their security into > their own hands, violent crime goes down significantly," he says. "Look at > Chicago and Washington, D.C., where the citizens are essentially forbidden > to own handguns, and the incidents of violent crimes are enormous." (In > June 2008, the Supreme Court struck down Washington D.C.'s ban on > handguns.) > > Later, he sends me a link to the FBI crime statistics from 2007 (the latest > information available). They report some grim facts. In Vermont, which > allows the concealed carrying of weapons without a permit, the violent > crimes per 100,000 inhabitants is 124.3, while in the District of Columbia, > it's 1413.3. Alaska, like Vermont, allows concealed carrying without a > permit, and their number is 661.2. In California, it's 522.6. > > Though he knows the laws regarding guns aren't always in the favor of gun > owners, Tom speculates that they can only get so rigid. > > "To completely eliminate all access to guns is going to be kind of tough > because we live in a country where the founders have determined that it's a > good thing for the citizens to be armed," he says. "And we agree." > > Tom doesn't open carry everywhere. He can't at work, where he is a > technical writer, and doesn't feel comfortable doing so at church. > > "I consider it inappropriate to wear it exposed because it's a big > distraction," he says. "And we're there to worship, not there to be > distracted by someone's outlandish clothes or political activism." > > He will also take it off, if on private property, when asked, such as when > he was stopped -- and the only time he's been approached negatively -- in a > supermarket. > > "The whole point is to try and make people aware and comfortable that > law-abiding citizens can carry guns without the world coming to an end," he > says simply, "without having to provoke a SWAT incident. We're very > meticulous in obeying the law. We're very careful about what the law says, > what we're allowed to do [and] what we're not allowed to do. And the police > have endorsed that, verified that." > > Though Tom may be in a minority, there is a growing open-carry movement in > San Diego. Tom estimates that there are between 75 and 100 active open > carriers locally. > > "We had between 75 and 100 people who said they were going to come [to the > February 28 event]," he says. "So there are at least 75 to 100. There have > been other meets where we've all gotten together for lunch down at El > Indio, and there were 20 to 25 people at each one of those. And there's > some overlap, and some people came to the first and not the second, so I'd > be surprised if there were less than 100 active people in the San Diego > area." > > He attended the El Indio lunch and reports that everyone in the restaurant > was respectful and supportive. > > "A couple of girls came in and had lunch and asked about it," he says. > "They said, 'Why are you guys all wearing guns?' " > > He pauses, laughing at the story. > > "And we explained the program to them, and they said, 'You know, I bet this > is the safest place in San Diego right now!' " > > __,_._,___ --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
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