Zeb, Well, it just MIGHT have given you some vauge notion of how the chain of command works and it's importance in the military culture. Now wouldn't it dumbass?
On Oct 3, 11:03 pm, Zebnick <[email protected]> wrote: > Holly, > You're just plain butt assed stupid. Whether or not I served in the > military has nothing what so fucking ever to do with the President > getting input from his commanders in the field to make decisions. But > keep talking. You're just digging yourself deeper and deeper into your > moron's abyss. > > On Oct 3, 5:11 pm, Hollywood <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Zeb, > > > Jeez, but you're an idiot. Have you ever actually served in the U.S. > > military? You have any idea what you're talking about? > > > On Oct 3, 3:47 pm, Zebnick <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Yeah, yer right bright boy! Why would the commander in chief want to > > > speak to the commander who is directly in charge of theater of > > > operation that he has to make a crucial decision about? LOL! Second > > > hand information is much better, huh? You really don't know when to > > > quit. > > > > On Oct 3, 4:31 pm, Hollywood <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Zeb, > > > > > Yeah sure, go ask anyone that has actually served in the military what > > > > "flimsy minutia" the chain of command it. Dumbass. > > > > > The POTUS can ALSO NOT speak to anyone under his command if he chooses > > > > and instead speak to the person through the chain of command. > > > > > On Oct 3, 1:53 pm, Zebnick <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > >there is a system (called Chain of Command) > > > > > > Why do you libs try to run smokescreens behind this flimsy minutia. It > > > > > is so transparent. The "chain of command" is not something that > > > > > prevents communication between command levels. It is a protocol. > > > > > Nothing more. The President can AND DOES speak to anyone and at any > > > > > level in the military he chooses to. > > > > > > On Oct 2, 11:15 pm, LimboIndo <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > No one is saying it wouldn't be better if he talked to McCrystal > > > > > > more. > > > > > > My point is, there is a system (called Chain of Command) in which > > > > > > McCrystal does not report directly to Obama. He is not "not doing > > > > > > what > > > > > > he is supposed to" by not talking to him directly. And to imply he > > > > > > is, > > > > > > would be false. > > > > > > > On Oct 2, 3:46 pm, jgg1000a <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Is 45 minutes with the President's time the right amount in 6 > > > > > > > months > > > > > > > for the top general??? Less time than what he spent on trying to > > > > > > > get > > > > > > > the Olympics... > > > > > > > > On Oct 2, 2:44 pm, Hollywood <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Zeb, > > > > > > > > > He made his point in the very first sentance of his post. What > > > > > > > > was it > > > > > > > > you don't understand? > > > > > > > > > On Oct 2, 8:48 am, Zebnick <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > SO? WHats your point? > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 1, 11:08 pm, LimboIndo <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > These are isolated incedents. Not permanent expansion to > > > > > > > > > > executive > > > > > > > > > > power. You are comparing apples and oranges. > > > > > > > > > > > "Cheney's office has taken the lead in challenging many of > > > > > > > > > > these laws, > > > > > > > > > > officials said, because they run counter to an expansive > > > > > > > > > > view of > > > > > > > > > > executive power that Cheney has cultivated for the past 30 > > > > > > > > > > years. > > > > > > > > > > Under the theory, Congress cannot pass laws that place > > > > > > > > > > restrictions or > > > > > > > > > > requirements on how the president runs the military and spy > > > > > > > > > > agencies. > > > > > > > > > > Nor can it pass laws giving government officials the power > > > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > responsibility to act independently of the president. > > > > > > > > > > > "Mainstream legal scholars across the political spectrum > > > > > > > > > > reject > > > > > > > > > > Cheney's expansive view of presidential authority, saying > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > Constitution gives Congress the power to make all rules and > > > > > > > > > > regulations for the military and the executive branch and > > > > > > > > > > the Supreme > > > > > > > > > > Court has consistently upheld laws giving bureaucrats and > > > > > > > > > > certain > > > > > > > > > > prosecutors the power to act independently of the > > > > > > > > > > president." > > > > > > > > > > > After an unprecedented number of signing statements, the > > > > > > > > > > White House > > > > > > > > > > laid low for a while. > > > > > > > > > > > But Cheney finally couldn't contain himself any longer, > > > > > > > > > > apparently. > > > > > > > > > > And here's the first Bush signing statement in three months > > > > > > > > > > , quietly > > > > > > > > > > filed away two weeks ago in response to the deeply > > > > > > > > > > threatening Coastal > > > > > > > > > > Barrier Resources Reauthorization Act of 2005 . > > > > > > > > > > > The law, sponsored by five Republicans from both houses, > > > > > > > > > > and passed by > > > > > > > > > > unanimous consent in the Senate and by voice vote in the > > > > > > > > > > House, > > > > > > > > > > directs the Secretary of the Interior to report to Congress > > > > > > > > > > on the > > > > > > > > > > creation of digital maps of the John H. Chafee Coastal > > > > > > > > > > Barrier > > > > > > > > > > Resources System units and other protected areas under a > > > > > > > > > > digital > > > > > > > > > > mapping pilot project. > > > > > > > > > > > But here's what Bush's signing statement says: "Section > > > > > > > > > > 3(c)(2) and > > > > > > > > > > section 4(c)(3)(C) and (D) purport to require executive > > > > > > > > > > branch > > > > > > > > > > officials to submit legislative recommendations to the > > > > > > > > > > Congress. The > > > > > > > > > > executive branch shall construe such provisions in a manner > > > > > > > > > > consistent > > > > > > > > > > with the Constitution's commitment to the President of the > > > > > > > > > > authority > > > > > > > > > > to submit for the consideration of the Congress such > > > > > > > > > > measures as the > > > > > > > > > > President judges necessary and expedient and to supervise > > > > > > > > > > the unitary > > > > > > > > > > executive branch." > > > > > > > > > > >http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2006/06/06/BL200606... > > > > > > > > > > >http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-06-05-power-play_x.htm > > > > > > > > > > Congress, courts push back against Bush's assertions of > > > > > > > > > > presidential > > > > > > > > > > power > > > > > > > > > > > etc etc > > > > > > > > > > > And in response to your second statement, yes they have > > > > > > > > > > tried it > > > > > > > > > > before. > > > > > > > > > > > Bush: Congress can't stop troop > > > > > > > > > > increasehttp://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/14/bush.60.minutes/ > > > > > > > > > > WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Congress cannot reverse last week's > > > > > > > > > > decision to > > > > > > > > > > send 21,000 more troops to Iraq, President Bush said in an > > > > > > > > > > interview > > > > > > > > > > intended to rally popular support for his plan. > > > > > > > > > > > "Frankly, that's not their responsibility," Bush said in an > > > > > > > > > > interview > > > > > > > > > > on the CBS News program "60 Minutes," which aired Sunday. > > > > > > > > > > > "It's my responsibility to put forward the plan that I > > > > > > > > > > think will > > > > > > > > > > succeed. I believe if they start trying to cut off funds, > > > > > > > > > > they better > > > > > > > > > > explain to the American people and the soldiers why their > > > > > > > > > > plan will > > > > > > > > > > succeed," the president said. > > > > > > > > > > > Some Democrats, including Massachusetts Sen. Edward > > > > > > > > > > Kennedy, have > > > > > > > > > > called on Congress to block Bush from committing more > > > > > > > > > > troops to Iraq, > > > > > > > > > > either by limiting the number of troops that can be > > > > > > > > > > committed or by > > > > > > > > > > cutting off funds for further deployments. (Watch > > > > > > > > > > congressional > > > > > > > > > > reaction to plan ) > > > > > > > > > > > Asked if he believes that he, as commander-in-chief of the > > > > > > > > > > armed > > > > > > > > > > forces, has the authority to order troops to Iraq in the > > > > > > > > > > face of > > > > > > > > > > congressional opposition, Bush said, "In this situation, I > > > > > > > > > > do, yeah." > > > > > > > > > > > "I fully understand they could try to stop me from doing > > > > > > > > > > it," he said. > > > > > > > > > > "But I made my decision, and we're going forward." > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 1, 9:51 pm, Zebnick <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > >Are you saying that the powers of the Executive Branch > > > > > > > > > > > >did not > > > > > > > > > > > >increase under President Bush? > > > > > > > > > > > > Compared to what? Other Presidents? LBJ escalated a war > > > > > > > > > > > that got > > > > > > > > > > > 60,000 of our troops killed. FDR put American citizens of > > > > > > > > > > > Japanese > > > > > > > > > > > descent in internment camps (if I were a liberal I'd call > > > > > > > > > > > them > > > > > > > > > > > concentration camps). JFK had people like ML King > > > > > > > > > > > followed by the FBI. > > > > > > > > > > > He invaded Cuba. Reagan had a missile fired into > > > > > > > > > > > Khadafy's house, > > > > > > > > > > > killing his daughter. Exactly what "powers" are so much > > > > > > > > > > > greater than > > > > > > > > > > > those I mentioned? > > > > > > > > > > > > >and after all congress (which is also informed by > > > > > > > > > > > certain cabinets > > > > > > > > > > > > >and committees) must approve these depolyments for them > > > > > > > > > > > >to >happen > > > > > > > > > > > > Talk about splitting hairs. The only thing congress can > > > > > > > > > > > do to stop the > > > > > > > > > > > President's troop deployments is defund them. That is > > > > > > > > > > > political poison > > > > > > > > > > > as it is seen as being against our own troops. The Dems > > > > > > > > > > > wouldn't even > > > > > > > > > > > do that to Bush, and they fuckin hated him. They'd NEVER > > > > > > > > > > > block Obama. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Based on available information and the reality of the > > > > > > > > > > > > situation I > > > > > > > > > > > > think it a misrepresentation to insinuate that the > > > > > > > > > > > > President is > > > > > > > > > > > > somehow not doing his job by not directly conversing > > > > > > > > > > > > with troop > > > > > > > > > > > > commanders. > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, you'd be wrong in that assessment. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 1, 9:09 pm, LimboIndo <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Zebnick, > > > > > > > > > > > > > My knowledge of history is actually quite > > > > > > > > > > > > extensive(although I > > > > > > > > > > > > wouldn't really qualify 2004 as such, perhaps "modern > > > > > > > > > > > > history"). > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you saying that the powers of the Executive Branch > > > > > > > > > > > > did not > > > > > > > > > > > > increase under President Bush? (yes or no answer, not > > > > > > > > > > > > "you are stupid, > > > > > > > > > > > > you suck, I had sex with your mom type answers) > > > > > > > > > > > > > And yes the President authorizes troop deployments > > > > > > > > > > > > which must be > > > > > > > > > > > > approved by congress. Now you are splitting hairs. The > > > > > > > > > > > > whole premise > > > > > > > > > > > > of this post is that Obama makes this decisions soley > > > > > > > > > > > > so he should be > > > > > > > > > > > > better informed by lower ranking members "on the > > > > > > > > > > > > ground." > > > > > > > > > > > > > My argument is that Obama does not make these decisions > > > > > > > > > > > > arbitrarily. > > > > > > > > > > > > He has several steps in the CoC before Gen.McCrystal, > > > > > > > > > > > > he has councils > > > > > > > > > > > > of senior officials to advise on > > > ... > > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ * It's active and moderated. 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