oops! at least we agree
On Mar 3, 12:40 pm, Hollywood <[email protected]> wrote: > Plain, > > Yeah, that's what I said..... no thanks to theocracy. You should have > directed your post to Bruce. > > On Mar 3, 10:53 am, plainolamerican <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > we should obey the dictates of our respective > > religions and place them in authority over secular governments > > ---- > > uh ... no thanks > > > On Mar 3, 9:09 am, Hollywood <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Bruce, > > > > let's get to the point lad. What you are saying basically is that the > > > Moslem fanactics and Christian Fundies and other assorted religious > > > fanatics are right, that we should obey the dictates of our respective > > > religions and place them in authority over secular governments. Or is > > > it ONLY Christian fanatics that you support? > > > > On Mar 2, 9:43 pm, Bruce Majors <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Jesus Is an Anarchist > > > > (A free-market/libertarian anarchist, that is--otherwise what is called > > > > an > > > > anarcho-capitalist.) > > > > > by James Redford <[email protected]> > > > > The above title may seem like strong words, for surely that can't be > > > > correct? Jesus an anarchist? One must be joking, right? > > > > > But you read correctly, and I will demonstrate exactly that. At this > > > > point > > > > you may be incredulous, but I assure you that I am quite serious. If > > > > you are > > > > a Christian and find the above title at all hard to believe then you of > > > > all > > > > people owe it to yourself to find out what the basis of this charge is, > > > > for > > > > if the above comes as news to you then you still have much to learn > > > > about > > > > Jesus and about the most vitally important struggle which has plagued > > > > mankind since the dawn of history: mankind's continuing struggle between > > > > freedom and slavery, between value producers and the violent parasitical > > > > elite, between peace and war, between truth and deception. This is the > > > > central struggle which defines mankind's history and, sadly, continues > > > > to do > > > > so. As Christians and as people in general, what we choose to believe > > > > and > > > > accept as the truth is equally as vitally important, for ultimately it > > > > is > > > > people's beliefs about the world that will shape and determine what > > > > outcomes > > > > transpire in the world. If the mass of people believe in political > > > > falsehoods and deceptions then mankind will continue to repeat the same > > > > gruesome mistakes, as it does presently, and the aforementioned struggle > > > > will continue to be no closer to a desirable resolution. Genuine change > > > > must > > > > first come by changing one's mind, and if what one had believed before > > > > was > > > > in error then one cannot expect good results to proceed forth from it. > > > > And > > > > all change starts with the individual. You can help change the world by > > > > simply changing your mind. All I ask of you is to believe in the > > > > truth--know > > > > the truth and the truth will make you free (John 8:32). > > > > > It is the purpose of this document to demonstrate the above claim, and > > > > if > > > > you are a Christian then I submit that it should be your task to > > > > honestly > > > > consider what is presented here, for if the above claim comes as a > > > > surprise > > > > then I will show that what you thought you knew about Jesus was not the > > > > whole story: Jesus is far more radical than many would have you > > > > believe, and > > > > for good reason--it threatens the status quo. For the consequence of > > > > this > > > > truth becoming understood and accepted by even one-tenth of the > > > > population > > > > would be quite dramatic indeed: governments would topple like so many > > > > dominoes. For as the 16th century Frenchman Étienne de la Boétie > > > > observed > > > > in *The Politics of Obedience: The Discourse of Voluntary > > > > Servitude*(http://www.blancmange.net/ > > > > tmh/articles/laboetie.html<http://www.blancmange.net/tmh/articles/laboetie.html>), > > > > all governments ultimately rest on the consent of the governed, even > > > > totalitarian dictatorships. Now this "consent" does not have to be in > > > > the > > > > form of active promotion and support of the State, it could simply be > > > > in the > > > > form of hopeless resignation, such as accepting the canard "nothing's as > > > > sure as death and taxes." All governments can only exist because the > > > > majority--in one form or another--accept them as at least being > > > > inevitable. > > > > They believe in the deception that even though government may be evil > > > > that > > > > it is nevertheless a necessary evil, and therefore cannot conceive of a > > > > better alternative. But if such were true then Jesus Christ's whole > > > > message > > > > is a fallacy. But such is not the truth, there is an alternative: > > > > liberty. > > > > And I will show that Jesus has called us to liberty, and that liberty > > > > and > > > > Christ's message are incompatible with government. > > > > > You may wonder where I got the one-tenth figure from in the above if all > > > > governments require the acceptance of their rule by the majority of > > > > their > > > > population. Again, the reason is because this acceptance doesn't have > > > > to be > > > > active support but merely resigned, as it usually is. If just one-tenth > > > > of > > > > the population strongly believed that government was itself the greatest > > > > moral evil and that there was a better alternative it would be enough to > > > > turn the tide. Since most people are followers and uncritically accept > > > > the > > > > reigning political opinions, those who do not accept the status quo and > > > > who > > > > are able to form and articulate a critical alternative will come to be > > > > the > > > > intellectual leaders by default when the popular regime suffers a > > > > crisis and > > > > people begin to look for alternatives. If the history of governments > > > > teach > > > > us anything it is that such crisis is a regular occurrence, for > > > > governments > > > > by their nature tend toward instability. If it be asked Why then do we > > > > still > > > > have government?, it is here answered that it is because no viable > > > > alternative to government has been articulated by a critical mass at > > > > such a > > > > crisis, in that most people throughout history have accepted the > > > > deception > > > > that government is a necessary evil and could not conceive a better > > > > alternative. > > > > > Now I will articulate that better alternative, the one that Christ > > > > commanded > > > > us. I will show that Jesus and His message are necessarily anarchistic. > > > > And > > > > what better place to start than in the beginning?: > > > > Jesus's Very Life Began in an Act of Defiance to Government (And Would > > > > Later > > > > End in Defiance to Government) > > > > > If it were not for Joseph and Mary's intentional act of defying that > > > > which > > > > they knew to be king Herod the Great's will and escaping with baby Jesus > > > > from out of Herod's mid as fugitives to the land of Egypt then Jesus > > > > would > > > > have been mercilessly killed and needless to say His ministry and the > > > > fulfillment of Scripture would have never come about. Thus in the most > > > > fundamental of regards, there is a great antagonism from the very start > > > > between Jesus and government (to say the least): Jesus was born into the > > > > world as a criminal and would latter be killed as a criminal--a > > > > criminal as > > > > so regarded by the government, that is. And what was baby Jesus's crime? > > > > From Matthew 2:1-6 we find the answer: > > > > > Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the > > > > king, behold, wise men from the East came to Jerusalem, saying, "Where > > > > is He > > > > who has been born King of the Jews? For we have seen His star in the > > > > East > > > > and have come to worship Him." When Herod the king heard this, he was > > > > troubled, and all Jerusalem with him. And when he had gathered all the > > > > chief > > > > priests and scribes of the people together, he inquired of them where > > > > the > > > > Christ was to be born. So they said to him, "In Bethlehem of Judea, for > > > > thus > > > > it is written by the prophet: 'But you, Bethlehem, in the land of > > > > Judah, Are > > > > not the least among the rulers of Judah; For out of you shall come a > > > > Ruler > > > > Who will shepherd My people Israel.' " (NKJV, as elsewhere unless noted > > > > otherwise.) > > > > > So here we learn that Herod became troubled at the thought that there > > > > might > > > > be someone else that people would come to regard as their king other > > > > than > > > > Herod. Herod regarded Jesus as a threat to his power: was his fear > > > > unjustified? It is my judgement and this document's central thesis that > > > > Herod was correct in his assessment of Jesus as being a threat to his > > > > power--although not just to Herod as an individual but to all that Herod > > > > represents, in a word: government; along with the unholy usurpation, > > > > deception and subjugation of people that it necessarily entails. For as > > > > I > > > > will show, Jesus's Kingdom is to be the functional opposite of any > > > > Earth-bound kingdom which has ever existed. And for government, this is > > > > the > > > > ultimate crime of which Jesus was guilty, and which required His > > > > extermination. > > > > > Here we read of this pivotal act of holy defiance to government, without > > > > which there would be no Christ as we know of: > > > > > Matthew 2:13-15: Now when they had departed, behold, an angel of the > > > > Lord > > > > appeared to Joseph in a dream, saying, "Arise, take the young Child and > > > > His > > > > mother, flee to Egypt, and stay there until I bring you word; for Herod > > > > will > > > > seek the young Child to destroy Him." When he arose, he took the young > > > > Child > > > > and His mother by night and departed for Egypt, and was there until the > > > > death of Herod, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord > > > > through the prophet, saying, "Out of Egypt I called My Son." > > > > > As well, so enraged was Herod upon learning that the wise men had > > > > disobeyed > > > > his order to report back to him on the location of baby Jesus that he > > > > ordered the extermination of all the male children in Bethlehem and the > > > > surrounding areas from age two and younger, all in the hopes that baby > > > > Jesus > > > > would be among the slaughtered (Matt. 2:12,16-18). It was only > > ... > > read more » -- Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ * It's active and moderated. 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