Zeb, You don't need to bother. ProudLiberal7 is using the "Progressive Dictionary" for his terms, You know, the one where up = down, in = out, yes = no. That is the only explanation for his verbal diarrhea. I guess he feels that if he buries you under his outpourings you won't notice that there is no substance there at all, that he really has nothing!!

BTW Gordon Urquhart is doing the same thing. All kinds of verbal spewings but he will never respond to a request to prove what he says with anything remotely making any kind of sense. Reminds me of some of the people who respond to other blogs the same way. They will keep pouring out the krep, which is what it is, but will never answer those who question what they put out there nor can they really prove what they say. If the thing they are responding to is so obviously true and damaging to the "progressive" viewpoint, then an attempt will be made to say "well, your side did it first" or an attempt will be made to change the subject totally. Common MO for the "progressives," who should really be called "regressives."

Zebnick wrote:
Have we been attacking terrorists who are IN Pakistan with  drones?
Answer:  Yes we have.  That's not a war, kiddies.

Dropping bombs and firing missiles that destroy buildings, vehicles
and some innocent bystanders is not war? What is it? A police action?
LOL!

On May 17, 8:35 pm, [email protected] wrote:
Obama ATTACKED AND INVADED PAKISTAN?  When  did that happen?  When did he
even TALK ABOUT going to war with  Pakistan?

Answers:  He hasn't done any of that.

Have we been attacking terrorists who are IN Pakistan with  drones?

Answer:  Yes we have.  That's not a war, kiddies.

Oops.

In a message dated 5/17/2010 5:31:28 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:

What a curious, and sudden, _reversal_ (http://www.house.gov/pelosi/State
mentonIraq91202.html) : now  we have Democrats claiming to have “inside”
information that justifies a war,  whilst Republicans are skeptical. Well, not
so curious, really, since the  Democrats now have a war of their own, the war
against Pakistan, to defend.
Obama’s Gulf of Tonkin
A war of their own: Democrats target Pakistan
by _Justin Raimondo_ (http://original.antiwar.com/author/justin/) , May 17,
 2010

The claim by the US government that the Times Square would-be  bomber,
_Faisal Shahzad_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faisal_Shahzad) , was  “trained”
and “directed” by the Pakistani Taliban is looking more bogus by the moment. _The latest_
(http://www.necn.com/05/14/10/Employer-Suspect-arrested-in-Maine-raid-...) : 
one of at least
three people arrested in connection with the  alleged “plot,” Mohammad Shafiq
Rahman, hadn’t seen Shahzad in years, and even  admitted to his employer that
he knew the accused. One Larry Adlerstein, who  had hired Rahman to do some
computer work for his art business, told  reporters:

“Just a few days ago he had a conversation with Rahman  about the attempted
bombing in New York City [in the course of which] his  employee made a
surprising admission. ‘As a matter of fact’ [said Rahman] ]I  know this guy
accused of trying to bomb Times Square. I haven’t seen him in 8  or 9 years but
I know him.’

“Adlerstein says Rahman described the  suspected bomber, Faisal Shahzad as ‘
an undirected person….no political  positions, just a drifter.’”

Rahman has been _arrested_
(http://www.mpbn.net/News/MaineHeadlineNews/tabid/968/ctl/ViewItem/mid...)   on 
trumped-up
immigration charges, but ask yourself: if you were part of a  terrorist plot, 
and
had assisted someone already in custody, would you admit  to knowing the
accused? This is just plain ordinary common sense: but that’s  not what
inspires our intrepid G-men.

In an _attempt_
(http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gv0gQgNBrtPjYTx4Xu...)   to 
follow the money trail, and find – or invent –
a foreign link, US  investigators have spread their net far and wide,
apparently including any  individuals who ever had significant financial 
dealings
with Shahzad over a  ten year period. This has led, so far, to arrests – all
on immigration  charges – in Brookline, and Watertown, _both  in
Massachusetts_
(http://news.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view/20100516suspects_link...) , 
and one in Maine. There is no
information coming out of  the immigration cops, since they aren’t
answerable to anyone – and refuse to  even confirm the identities of those being
held. The authorities often use  vague and constantly-shifting immigration laws,
easily violated by  non-lawyers, to wring information out of green card
holders and non-citizens  in general. No need to ship them off to Guantanamo,
or Bagram – just let _ICE_ (http://www.countercurrents.org/lendman260410.htm)
 deal with  them.

Yet as those who know the detainees are coming forward to present _a fuller picture_
(http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2010/05/15/de...) , it 
looks like there’s nothing at the
end of the money  trail but the administration’s Taliban conspiracy theory
asserted as fact.
It took a Republican senator, _Kit  Bond_
(http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iTdeCWcpX_vafLRF2J...) , to 
point out the obvious:
that US Attorney General Eric Holder is  “playing games” – political games
– with the case. The senior Republican on  the Senate intelligence
committee, Bonds averred that he has seen no  convincing evidence “so far” of
Shahzad’s purported link to the Pakistani  Taliban. Holder “is only interested
in looking tough on terrorism on TV, since  he’s now told the intelligence
community to skirt the national security law  and give only the details he
wants and when to Congress.” The administration  is invoking “national security
” to shield what it knows about the alleged plot  from Congress, while
_going  on television_
(http://www.mainjustice.com/2010/05/09/holders-long-delayed-sunday-tal...)  
announcing the “link” had been
established.

Dianne  Feinstein, the senior Democrat on the intelligence committee,
_claims_ (http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/05/13/gop.senator.times.square.probe/) she has definitive evidence of the Taliban link, but refuses to debate the matter with Bond “in public.” What a curious, and sudden, _reversal_
(http://www.house.gov/pelosi/StatementonIraq91202.html) : now  we have Democrats
claiming to have “inside” information that justifies a war,  whilst
Republicans are skeptical. Well, not so curious, really, since the  Democrats 
now
have a war of their own, the war against Pakistan, to defend.
This war, covert up until _a few months  ago_
(http://www.thenation.com/article/secret-us-war-pakistan) , first reared its 
head when Hillary Clinton
paid a _tempestuous  visit_
(http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2009/11/01/hillarys-ill-will-tour/)  to 
Pakistan and directly accused her hosts of
sheltering Osama bin  Laden. The resulting firestorm marked a new low in
US-Pakistani relations, and  one has trouble believing it was merely a random 
temper
tantrum on Hillary’s  part. You’ll recall that during the presidential
campaign, Obama openly _declared  his intention_
(http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/01/AR200...)  to 
go into
Pakistan, given the chance to do so, and it’s  entirely unsurprising he’s doing
just that.

First, however, his  administration must come up with a rationale, and
apparently they’ve settled  on the _pathetic_
(http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20100506_Faisal_Shahzad_bought_fire...)   
act of a demented “
_  lone wolf_
(http://www.newser.com/story/88110/gen-petraeus-times-square-bomber-ac...) ” – 
as Gen. David Petraeus characterized Shahzad –
as being good  enough for government work. In short, the Shahzad case is
Obama’s Gulf of  Tonkin incident.

The parallels are striking, and instructive: in both  cases, the government
constructed a completely made up story in order to  pursue a preordained
path to war. Just as _there  was no attack_
(http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:M0fIthbvQC8J:sea...
sberg/e/9781429506953+site:search.barnesandnoble.com+Ellsberg+Sample+Chapter
&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)  on any US ship in the Tonkin gulf, so there was
no attempted  Taliban plot to blow up Times Square – just another American
nut who went _postal_
(http://www.amazon.com/Going-Postal-Rebellion-Workplaces-Columbine/dp/...) .  
And this time, too, the
media is falling down on the job, refusing to question  what increasingly looks
like a crude fabrication.

As for the  Pakistanis, they too _believe_
(http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2010\05\12\story_12-5-2010_pg7_33)
   Shahzad was a lone nut:
Pakistan’s ambassador to the UN, Hussain Haroon,  described him as a “
misguided soul” who acted alone. While acknowledging  Washington may have other
intelligence, in an interview with CBS News Haroon  averred: “All I am saying
is that the evidence I have points in one direction  that it does not have
the signature of the Taliban. This is not, and I repeat  not, a Pakistan
terror threat.”
The ambassador went on to  note Shahzad is not even a Pakistani citizen,
and he brought up Hillary’s  accusation – _reiterated  this month_
(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/pakistan/7711099/Pakis...
ow-where-Osama-bin-Laden-hiding-Hillary-Clinton.html)  – that his
government is hiding bin Laden. Haroon and the  Pakistanis see the looming 
threat of
direct and massive US intervention in  Pakistan, and are doing everything
possible to stave it off. Yet the floating  of this absurd conspiracy theory
is a clear signal that the Obama-ites are  hell-bent on war.

The irony here is that, as Haroon reminded his  American audience, Pakistan
has captured and handed over to the US more actual  terrorists – i.e. top
al-Qaeda operatives – than _our  own FBI_
(http://www.rawstory.com/news/2008/FBI_documents_contradict_Sept._11_C...) , or 
any other law
enforcement agency anywhere. This is how we  thank them – by setting them up
for an invasion on bogus charges of  “harboring” terrorists.

When it comes to reporting the Shahzad case,  it’s incredible that the “
mainstream” media isn’t challenging the  administration’s narrative. Although
maybe, given the media’s longstanding _infatuation_
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnMevMJLdtE)  with the  President, this is just 
a case of love
being blind.

As it turns out,  Shahzad was fingered in a _leak to the  media_
(http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20004355-503544.html)  even before he 
was
arrested. This has all the earmarks of a  manufactured story, straight out of
the Bush administration’s neocon-written  _play-book_
...

read more »


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