On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 9:20 AM, MJ <[email protected]> wrote: > > As is typical, you (like most) equate Government/Politician Interests as > somehow being 'American' interests. > You then spew fallacy as you attempt to place people further RIGHT as > further LEFT (see previous linear demonstration). > I certainly understand your zeal to cling desperately. Hopefully, one day, > you will delve DEEPER and find what is missing. > > The United States has been party to two (2) Just Wars -- one on the moral > side but BEFORE it was *officially* the united States. > > Regard$, > --MJ > > "Politics under democracy consists almost wholly of the discovery, chase > and scotching of bugaboos. The statesman becomes, in the last analysis, a > mere witch-hunter, a glorified smeller and snooper, eternally chanting “Fe, > Fi, Fo, Fum!” It has been so in the United States since the earliest days. > The whole history of the country has been a history of melodramatic > pursuits of horrendous monsters, most of them imaginary: the red-coats, the > Hessians, the monocrats, again the red-coats, the Bank, the Catholics, > Simon Legree, the Slave Power, Jeff Davis, Mormonism, Wall Street, the rum > demon, John Bull, the hell hounds of plutocracy, the trusts, General > Weyler, Pancho Villa, German spies, hyphenates, the Kaiser, Bolshevism. The > list might be lengthened indefinitely; a complete chronicle of the Republic > could be written in terms of it, and without omitting a single important > episode." -- H.L. Mencken, 1926 > > > > > At 11:59 PM 5/27/2013, you wrote: > > I'll have to admit, this is a thought provoking article, but Mr. Smith, > as usual, couldn't himself write a fair, balanced article without > reverting to a little "Revisionist History" which he condemns himself. By > example, Smith asks: > > > *"I like and admire veterans, My dad was a vet and his dad before him. But > name any war the United States ever fought to defend American rights."* > > *"As I said, the War of 1812 was a failed attempt to conquer Canada. What > legitimate American interests were threatened by the British in 1812?" > > *The whole Canadian invasion was only after Great Britain started > boarding American ships to ensure that no goods were being shipped to the > European Continent. I'd say that pretty much affected American interests > and "American Rights". > * > "The Mexican War was declared on us by a crazy military dictator who > couldn't believe he had been humiliated by an Army of farmers and ranchers. > What legitimate American interests were threatened by the Mexicans?"* > > Uhm......Maybe the Mexicans' insistence that the Republic of Texas > belonged to Mexico?* *Again, "American Interests", its very > independence and sovereignty were clearly at stake. > * > "The War Between the States was fought to consolidate an empire forged out > of the shattered remnants of a confederation of free republics. Many > northern soldiers thought they were fighting slavery, but the slaves who > labored though the war on the Capitol dome might disagree. The South was > tired of paying 80% of the taxes being collected. What legitimate American > interests were threatened by the South?" > > *Although Smith's article is thought provoking, most all of Mr. Smith's > revisionist accounting of the historical events, and his far left partisan > viewpoints are a distraction. Never once does Smith ever address any of > the "American Interests" and/or the "American Rights" that were at stake > or threatened during the various and sundry examples of American > involvement in global affairs, (Smith fails to mention a number of these > events) but attempts to paint his own Nation as the villain. Not at all > was it a surprise to see Smith in bed with Justin Raimondo and > Anti-War.com. * > * > On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 6:22 PM, MJ <[email protected]> wrote: > "I like and admire veterans, My dad was a vet and his dad before him. > But name any war the United States ever fought to defend American rights." > > THE LIBERTARIAN ENTERPRISE > Number 722, May 26, 2013 > The sad thing about [WW-2] is that it was not a conflict between good > and evil, but between differing brands of fascism. Fascism won. > Memorial Day > by L. Neil Smith > > Yesterday, I received in my Inbox, a message from a well-meaning > individual whose mailings I generally enjoy. He sends me many jokes, funny > pictures, and the occasional right wing rant appropriate to one who clings > to his guns and his religion. To me—as one who clings to his guns and Atlas > Shrugged—this makes him a goodguy, a fellow traveler. > > He also occasionally sends me messages—and he is far from the only > one—like the one reproduced in part below. Usually, I let them pass—he > probably doesn't care what I think about intellectual property rights, or > other controversies within the libertarian movement. But on this occasion, > he sent me some ideas I need to talk about. > > Before I start, I should mention that my grandfather died in an Army camp > near Waco, Texas, in 1918, a volunteer for Woodrow Wilson's "war to end war > ... and make the world safe for democracy" who never got a chance to fight, > thanks to what was then called the "Spanish Influenza". > > In 1944, my father, who never got a chance to meet his father, was a > bombardier, a young Army Air Corps lieutenant in the nose of a B-17 who > flew something like 29 missions over Europe before being shot down over > Germany. He was taken as a prisoner to Stalag Luft Drei for about a year, > had many horrible adventures both before and after he was captured, and was > rescued, with his fellow inmates, after the D-Day landing. > > After the war, Dad tried civilian life, discovering that some > corporations—United Airlines, for one—are worse than government. He > re-enlisted in the brand new shiny Air Force as a staff sergeant, and, > owing to the Korean War, was then recalled to his commissioned rank and > ultimately assigned to Strategic Air Command. The war in Asia ended before > his training did, so he never had to go "over there", but he went on to > achieve the rank of Major and retired as a 30-year veteran. > > I grew up on and around Air Force bases all over North America from the > time I was five years old until I graduated from high school. As a kid, I > agreed with my father that he was helping to keep America safe and free > from communist aggression, by flying a B-52 with a belly full of fusion > bombs up over the North Pole two or three times a week, and hanging around > at the edge of Soviet airspace, just to let the badguys know what they were > up against. Who the hell knows? Maybe it worked. > > For the most part, I liked life as a military dependent, I liked growing > up within the military community, and I actually pitied the civilian people > I met who weren't a part of that warm world. But as time went on, Dad began > to question a culture that somehow, by mere coincidence, managed to provide > a war—or two—for each and every generation. And by the time he had retired, > in 1965, and had two sons of military age in the middle of the murderously > futile exercise in Vietnam, he was certain. He never read Smedley > Darlington Butler's War Is A Racket, but he managed to figure out what the > score really was. > > I still like and get along with military people, of all branches of > service. They tend to like me, and what I do. I was told once that my first > novel, The Probability Broach was, in popularity aboard our nuclear > submarine fleet, second only to Garfield comics, and I felt highly > complimented. If there had been a Navy R.O.T.C. program when I was at > Colorado State University, my life would have turned out very differently. > Air Force brat or not, I desperately wanted to be a sub-driver. > > But thanks to the Vietnam War, which I successfully avoided, I never had > any illusions. I was not about to sacrifice a minute of my life to enhance > the power of that giant ball of mucus, Lyndon Baines Johnson, who > represented a vastly greater threat to my life, liberty, and property than > Ho Chi Minh or anybody like him ever did. He was the fat, lying, murderous > bastard who accused Barry Goldwater of wanting to fight a land war in Asia, > and stuck us with the 1968 Gun Control Act. > > So with all that in mind, let's consider the Memorial Day claims my friend > sent to me, and I can only hope he'll be my friend after this. > > "It is the veteran, not the preacher, who has given us freedom of > religion." > > The truth is that neither the veteran nor the preacher ever gave us such > a right, it is ours, under natural law, the very moment we are born. It can > certainly be suppressed, and has been other places in the world, and here, > as well—ask any Mormon—but this government hasn't fought a war to defend > any American's rights since the Revolution. > > "It is the veteran, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the > press." > > Once again, not so. When the War of 1812 "broke out"—the U.S. was > attempting to bestow the blessings of American life upon Canada whether > Canada wanted them or not—and people objected (New England nearly seceded > over it) people were accused of "sedition", a charge that should be > impossible under the First Amendment, and thrown in jail. > > Later, Abraham Lincoln used the Army to smash the printing presses of his > political opposition and intimidate voters during the 1864 election. > > "It is the veteran, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech." > > Freedom of speech and of the press are natural rights, as well, which > governments in general, and the American government in particular, have > always regarded as a threat. If any single individual can be thanked for > it, that honor belongs to John Peter Zenger (look him up). At some point, > the establishment press became so corrupt, concealing or excusing > government atrocities, that they became a part of government, and a new > press—the Internet—had to evolve in its place. > > "It is the veteran, not the campus organizer, who has given us freedom to > assemble." > > Having once been a "campus organizer" myself, I am well aware how little > we had to do with defending the right to assemble, and how very badly it > was done. But please, don't be ridiculous. Two words: Kent State. > > "It is the veteran, not the lawyer, who has given us the right to a fair > trial." > > Actually, to the extent that any human institution is responsible for > the right to a fair trial, it's a thousand years of English Common Law. > > "It is the veteran, not the politician, Who has given us the right to > vote." > > A dubious gift, at best, but it didn't come from any politicians or > veterans. Thank the Greeks, and don't forget the Basques, whose methods of > self-government were consciously imitated by the Founding Fathers. > > I like and admire veterans, My dad was a vet and his dad before him. But > name any war the United States ever fought to defend American rights. > > As I said, the War of 1812 was a failed attempt to conquer Canada. What > legitimate American interests were threatened by the British in 1812? > > The Mexican War was declared on us by a crazy military dictator who > couldn't believe he had been humiliated by an Army of farmers and ranchers. > What legitimate American interests were threatened by the Mexicans? > > The War Between the States was fought to consolidate an empire forged out > of the shattered remnants of a confederation of free republics. Many > northern soldiers thought they were fighting slavery, but the slaves who > labored though the war on the Capitol dome might disagree. The South was > tired of paying 80% of the taxes being collected. What legitimate American > interests were threatened by the South? > > The Spanish-American War was an attempt by idiots like William McKinley > and William Randolph Hearst to extend Lincoln's Empire overseas. What > legitimate American interests were threatened by the Spaniards? > > World War I had nothing to do with America, but Americans were sent "Over > There" by the evil Wilson to establish us as a global power. What > legitimate American interests were threatened by the Kaiser? > > Even World War II had nothing to do with us, although it's easy to > understand—and difficult to resist—the impulse to destroy a monster like > Hitler. It's important to remember that Hitler was created by the > incredible stupidity of the victorious allies in the First World War. The > sad thing about it all is that it was not a conflict between good and evil, > but between differing brands of fascism. > > Fascism won. > > Korea was an exercise in absolute insanity. I'm glad that the south > remains prosperous and free, but the price for us was far too high. There > was no reason whatever for Americans to be involved on the peninsula. What > legitimate American interests were threatened by North Korea? > > To this day, nobody is absolutely sure what Vietnam was all about. There's > even a movie, Twilight's Last Gleaming, in which an Army officer hijacks a > missile silo to force the President to tell the world the terrible truth of > the thing. We killed 60,000 of our own— possibly including someone who, > later in life, might have found a cure for cancer or Alzheimer's > disease—and two million Vietnamese who are among the finest, bravest, most > admirable human beings on this planet. What legitimate American interests > were threatened by the Vietnmese? > > And now Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, and whatever else is to follow. What > legitimate American interests are threatened by any of those nations? > > Nothing about individual rights, property, or American life except their > further destruction by the only government close enough to do us harm. Both > major U.S. parties are controlled by warmongers who want to keep the > government money flowing at any cost—to you and me, that is. Every > legitimate American interest is threatened by the current government. > > There are ways to stop it, if you're interested. > > http://www.ncc-1776.org/tle2013/tle722-20130526-02.html > <http://www.ncc-1776.org/tle2013/tle722-20130526-02.html> > -- > -- > Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. > For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum > > * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ > * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. > * Read the latest breaking news, and more. > > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "PoliticalForum" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > > -- > -- > Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. > For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum > > * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ > * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. > * Read the latest breaking news, and more. > > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "PoliticalForum" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > -- > -- > Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. > For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum > > * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ > * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. > * Read the latest breaking news, and more. > > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "PoliticalForum" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > >
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