First of all, it's crazy that Japan implemented 12 stimulus bills at all. Insane!! Secondly, the recession did not end with the last stimulus bill, but dragged on for several more years. It's absurd to give japan's government any credit when it took several additional years after the last of 12 stimulus packages to beat the recession.
None of your cutnpaste quotes validate your point about the Iraq war ending the recession.. Just because the occurred in the same time period proves nothing. Even correlation (which has not been shown) does not prove causation. Both Reagan and Bush implimented massive tax cut during their recessions, which helped usher in economic growth...but you forgot to mention those. Jarrad Sent from my iPhone On Feb 9, 2009, at 4:12 PM, Lance McCulley <[email protected]> wrote: > The recession ended. Japan's government helped end it. They poorly > implemented the plan, and couldn't decide on a single strategy, > which is why it took so long to work. Point proven. > http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/06/world/asia/06japan.html?pagewanted=1 > http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/21/news/economy/yang_japan.fortune/ > > ROFL...The Iraq invasion DID NOT PULL US OUT OF THE 2001-2002 > RECESSION. I've never even heard that before, not even from my > LEFTIST Wacko Fringe buddies at work. Still ROFL.... > Laugh all you want. The point is, our recession started because of > the internet boom bubble bursting. It deepened due to the 9/11 > attacks. It ended at the end of 2003, not coincidentally, after the > invasion of Iraq when manufacturing starting seeing turn around in > the markets. Yes, our spending money on Iraq saved us from an even > deeper recession. > > The 2003 invasion of Iraq, from March 20 to May 1, 2003, was > spearheaded by the United States, backed by British forces and > smaller contingents from Australia, Spain, Poland and Denmark. > --http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_invasion_of_Iraq > > Using the stock market as an unofficial benchmark, a recession would > have begun in March 2000 when the NASDAQ crashed following the > collapse of the Dot-com bubble. The Dow Jones Industrial Average was > relatively unscathed by the NASDAQ's crash until the September 11, > 2001 attacks, after which the DJIA suffered its worst one-day point > loss and biggest one-week losses in history up to that point. The > market rebounded, only to crash once more in the final two quarters > of 2002. In the final three quarters of 2003, the market finally > rebounded permanently, agreeing with the unemployment statistics > that a recession defined in this way would have lasted from 2001 > through 2003. > --http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_2000s_recession#United_States > > When was the last time a recession ended without government > intervention? Hell, even Reagan ended his recession with deficit > spending...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_1980s_recession#Recovery > I'll give you a little hint--it hasn't happened. No recession, that > I can find, has ever ended without government intervention. > > -Lance > > > On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Jarrad Reiner <[email protected]> > wrote: > The Japan "equation" was first begun by you on Feb. 4, 2009. I > merely turned it against you. You cite they didn't spend it fast > enough for success, yet they seemed to spend it fast enough to > require additional bailouts (12 total) during their recessionary > years, where they spent so much it ended up equaling their total > GDP. Yet, the recession did not end until several years after the > last bailout. > > But If your worried about spending the stimulus fast enough, worry > some more: The House Version (only version to be passed) will barely > spend 21% of the funds this year. Now thats according the > Congressional Budget Office. > > To accurazie your statement: I'm convinced that the GOVERNMENT > doing nothing is better than the GOVERNMENT spending upwards of a > $TRILLION dollars THEY DO NOT HAVE, of which only 12% actually go to > something resembling GROWTH STIMULUS. > > ROFL...The Iraq invasion DID NOT PULL US OUT OF THE 2001-2002 > RECESSION. I've never even heard that before, not even from my > LEFTIST Wacko Fringe buddies at work. Still ROFL.... > > You win a basketball game by having your TEAM (the American people) > fight for every loose ball, every rebound, take high percentage > shots, move the ball to the open man, make free throws and play > "condom" style defense. YOU DO NOT WIN by calling on the "BUILDING > MANAGEMENT" (government) to enter the game for your 5 best players > while allowing them (who are not ball players) to call their own > plays, make their own substitutions, and play their own brand of > defense. > > > Jarrad > > > > On Feb 9, 2009, at 2:43 PM, Lance McCulley wrote: > >> This particular something has not been tried, and your pathetic >> attempt to equate our two countries is driving me batty. When the >> stimulus was passed, the spending didn't ensue. Thus, the point of >> stimulus, to spend, never occurred at the desired rate, canceling >> any good that could have come from it. >> >> Myths and truths about Japan's stimulus >> >> Conservative critics like the Wall Street Journal's editorial board >> have been using Japan's experience as evidence to be wary of >> stimulus packages altogether. In an editorial last month entitled >> "Barack Obama-san," the Journal listed all of Japan's stimulus >> attempts, and then intoned: "Not to spoil the party, but [stimulus >> spending] is not a new idea...How do you say 'good luck' in >> Japanese?" >> >> However, as in any reading of history, the closer you look the more >> nuanced the lessons. For many, the moral of the story isn't that >> Japan erred in deciding to use fiscal policy to fix their economy >> -- its failure was in the execution. >> >> For one thing, there was dubious logic behind too many of Japan's >> infrastructure projects. "It was the epitome of bridges to >> nowhere," says economist Ed Lincoln, director of the Center for >> Japan-U.S. Business and Economic Studies at New York University. >> "There was apparently a $2 billion bridge built to an island of 800 >> people." >> >> And even before the financial crisis hit, Japan was wasting money >> on pork-barrel projects, so by the time the Japanese ramped up >> spending in the 1990s, they had run out of worthy projects to fund. >> The United States, by comparison, has a long list of needy spots. >> (Witness the Minneapolis bridge collapse in 2007.) >> >> Finally, any action by the government needs to be done swiftly and >> decisively. >> >> The Japanese government's efforts were spread over several years >> but it was as if its leaders couldn't pick one strategy and stick >> to it. After passing a series of stimulus packages in the early >> 1990s, the economy showed signs of improving; by 1995, GDP was >> growing at roughly an annual rate of 2.5%. >> >> And then the government took a fateful step. Worried about its >> growing debt, Japan raised its consumption tax two percentage >> points, to 5%, in 1997. And the economy, by now also hobbled with >> deflation, sunk into a recession. >> --http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/21/news/economy/yang_japan.fortune/ >> >> But, you won't hear it, you're too convinced that doing _nothing_ >> is better than doing nothing. Exactly, what evidence is this based >> on? >> >> You agree that WWII is what ended the Great Depression. Well, we >> spent hundreds of millions of dollars. It was unprecedented at the >> time, but it worked. When we were in a recession in 2001-2003, what >> got us out of it was spending hundreds of billions of dollars on >> the Iraq invasion. Again, spending worked. >> >> Where's the evidence that doing nothing will create much needed >> jobs? Sorry Jarrad, but I'm not willing to do _nothing_ on the >> hopes that something will come of it, and neither is Sen. Specter, >> a Republican. What you are suggesting is plain arrogant >> foolishness. You wouldn't argue that you can win a basketball game >> by standing on the sidelines. So, what makes you think that sitting >> on the sidelines during the most economic troubling time of our >> generation, is a good idea? >> >> -Lance >> >> >> On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 11:19 AM, Jarrad Reiner <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> Yes, we're all familiar with the tired pathetic excuse "we have to >> do something". >> Except this particular something has been tried many times before; >> See Japan (mid 1990's) >> >> Jarrad >> >> >> >> >> On Feb 9, 2009, at 2:12 PM, Lance McCulley wrote: >> >>> I am supporting the economic stimulus package for one simple >>> reason: The country cannot afford not to take action. >>> The unemployment figures announced Friday, the latest earnings >>> reports and the continuing crisis in banking make it clear that >>> failure to act will leave the United States facing a far deeper >>> crisis in three or six months. By then the cost of action will be >>> much greater -- or it may be too late. >>> Wave after wave of bad economic news has created its own >>> psychology of fear and lowered expectations. As in the old >>> Movietone News, the eyes and ears of the world are upon the United >>> States. Failure to act would be devastating not just for Wall >>> Street and Main Street but for much of the rest of the world, >>> which is looking to our country for leadership in this crisis. >>> --http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/08/AR2009020801710.html >>> -Lance >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Politically Opinionated Outspoken People Expounding Religion" group. 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