1000% setuju,mas. Seringkali demokrasi dicemooh, karena hasilnya belepotan. Saya seringkali bayangkan, sebuah kendaraan yang exactly sama, berbeda sekali rasanya, kalau dikemudi oleh supir/driver yang berbeda kemampuan. Ada yang mulus, ada yang ndut ndutan, walau ini BMW seri 9pun.
Juga kematangan warga sangat menentukan. Dimana warga masih mudah dimanipulasi, maka demokrasi akan jadi democrazy, sekedar farce. Yang memimpin, bukanlah sipemilih, namun kelompok oloigarki yang berdiri dibelakang. Ini terjadi di Afrika dan Amerika Latin. Contoh yang paling jelas, adalah Rusia. Siapapun pemimpin yang terpilih, pimpinan ada ditangan sekelompok manusia. Di Eropa Barat, misalnya Austria, demokrasi memberikan sebuah kesan badutan, karena kelompok terpilih ter-pecah-pecah, hingga tak ada satupun yang secara sovereign mampu memerintah DAN menjalankan programnya. Akhirnya timbul dagang sapi never ending. Jerman juga menawarkan skenario sami mawon. But, you are absolutely right! Dari semua sistem yang ada, ini kelihatannya tetap yang optimal. Yang paling ciloko theocracy, disamping dictatorship, dan model model sejenis. Salam Danardono --- In ppiindia@yahoogroups.com, Nugroho Dewanto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > ya itulah indahnya demokrasi. ada kontestasi > terhadap gagasan dan program. > > sebuah faham dilawan dengan faham yang lain. > program dilawan dengan program. > > anda bisa menang kali ini, tapi tak ada jaminan > anda akan berkuasa selamanya. > > tapi yang paling indah, demokrasi mengganti > bullet dengan ballot. > > tak perlu perang dan pertumpahan darah untuk > berkuasa. cukup gunakan hak pilih dalam > pemilihan umum yang damai seperti sudah terjadi > di indonesia 1955, 1999 dan 2004. > > > > At 09:51 AM 11/15/2007 +0000, you wrote: > > >Ya demikianlah mas Nugroho. > > > >Saya juga melihat potensi raksasa dibalik bangsa ini, untuk menjadi > >bangsa demokrat yang besar dengan kejayaan yang pernah dialami. > >Para cendekiawan muda kita pasti akan mampu menguakkan konsevatisme > >dan fundamentalisme yang membelenggu menuju suatu masyarakat Civil > >Society. > > > >Demikianlah pula dengan rakyat AS yang pasti mampu membebaskan diri > >dari paham neo-konservatisme dibawah klik yang kini berkuasa. > > > >Salam > > > >Danardono > > > >--- In <mailto:ppiindia% 40yahoogroups.com>ppiindia@yahoogroups.com, > >Nugroho Dewanto <ndewanto@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > maaf carla, saya tak berbagi pesimisme dengan anda dalam > > > memandang manusia. > > > > > > manusia tidak bergelimang dan lekat dengan dosa (kebodohan), > > > justeru dia berpotensi menjadi mahluk Tuhan yang terbaik di atas > > > muka bumi. > > > > > > saya tak pesimistis dengan (rakyat) amerika. sekarang sudah ada > > > tanda-tanda rezim bush akan bangkrut. mereka sudah kalah di > > > kongres dan kandidatnya dalam pemilihan presiden terkena isu > > > suap dari mafia. > > > > > > rezim neo-konservatif pro-industri pencemar lingkungan yang tak mau > > > meneken protokol kyoto itu akan segera berakhir. bahkan > > > sebagian tokoh republik, mis gubernur kalifornia arnold > >schwartzeneger, > > > sekarang terang-terangan mendukung agenda demokrasi, kemanusiaan > > > dan kelestarian lingkungan yang biasa diusung kaum demokrat. > > > > > > saya juga tak pesimistis dengan (rakyat) indonesia. semakin > > > banyak cendekiawan muda yang berpandangan maju. bila bisa bebas > > > dari korupsi, indonesia akan jadi bangsa maju dan demokrat terbesar > >dari > > > kalangan dunia islam. > > > > > > saran saya, jangan terlalu melihat kelompok militan yang sebetulnya > > > kecil tapi suaranya keras. jangan sampai melihat bayangan harimau, > > > padahal di balik lampu cuma ada seekor kucing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 10:54 PM 11/14/2007 -0800, you wrote: > > > > > > >dear pak Nugroho, > > > > > > > >actually, i dont want u to misunderstood my previous posting, im > >not > > > >generalize ppl that have islam as their religion as wahhabist. i > >met many > > > >good ppl ( that by birth and family, made them a muslim). in fact > >two of > > > >my closest friend have Islam as their religion. also, i have great > >respect > > > >for ppl like Gus dur, Ulil n ppl in Is-lib, for me they re a > >freedom-fighter. > > > > > > > >but thats not my point. majority of muslim in indonesia are > >fundies or a > > > >potential fundies, they claimed that Gus dur is not a true muslim, > >in fact > > > >they even treated Ulil as an apostate. liberal and moderate muslim > >re > > > >loosing ground, they re not popular, some claimed that there're > >more > > > >moderate Islam in indonesia, but where re they? why they never > >speak up? > > > >only the same person over and over again speak up. and they re > >only few. > > > >(actually if u want to added indonesian celebrities to this > >count..that > > > >fine with me). > > > > > > > >the ppl that called them selves a liberal muslim use their voice > >of reason > > > >and heart's compassion. but again sadly i have to say there're > >very few of > > > >them. > > > > > > > >bcs majority of muslim follow as what Imam al Ghazzali (1058 > >1111) said: > > > >"Where the claims of reason come into conflict with revelation, > >reason > > > >must yield to revelation." (Tahafut al-falasafa, the Incoherence > >of > > > >Philosophers). > > > > > > > >i think we have to be dare to know and dare to ask question > >regarding this > > > >matter. should we interpret reality to fit our view? or should i > >adapt our > > > >view to reality? > > > > > > > >As Bertrand Russell once said, "The whole problem with the world > >is that > > > >fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser > >people > > > >so full of doubts." Elsewhere he said, "Do not fear to be > >eccentric in > > > >opinion, for every opinion now accepted was once eccentric." > > > > > > > >Science historian Thomas Kuhn wrote, `In science ideas do not > >change > > > >simply because new facts win out over outmoded ones Since the > >facts can't > > > >speak for themselves, it is their human advocates who win or lose > >the day' > > > >(Shirley C. Strum, Almost Human, 1987Strum's references are to > >Thomas > > > >Kuhn's The Structure of Scientific Revolutions, second edn, 1970). > > > > > > > >John Stuart Mill, in his essay On Liberty, emphasized that, `the > >dictum > > > >that truth always triumphs over persecution is one of those > >pleasant > > > >falsehoods which men repeat after one another till they pass into > > > >commonplaces, but which all experience refutes. History teems with > > > >instances of truth put down by persecution. If not suppressed for > >ever, it > > > >may be thrown back for centuries." > > > > > > > >It is a lie to think that truth will automatically triumph over > >lies or > > > >that goodness will eventually win over evil on its own. This is a > >sweet > > > >lie that has no bases on reality and it serves to no purpose other > >than to > > > >lull us into inaction. Truth does not win unless someone promotes > >it and > > > >goodness will not triumph unless someone advances it. > > > > > > > >Who will advance the truth? The orthodoxy will not tolerate > >innovative > > > >ideas that defy its paradigm. > > > > > > > > > > > >The pioneers ( liberal muslim) are often outsiders. They are > >mavericks and > > > >heretics, rejected by the orthodoxy in this case the wahhabism as > >the orthodox. > > > > > > > >Not all learning is knowledge. Most people have learned a lot, but > >they > > > >know little. They are scholars, but not scouts. > > > > > > > >regarding wahhabism, why more muslim follows this kinda teaching > >(not > > > >voice of reason n their compassion, like all liberal muslim) ? > >this fact > > > >is defies logic. What actually is happening is that they feel > >threatened. > > > >Their faith is challenged, and as the result, they hide deeper in > >their > > > >shell. They will not venture out, until that shell is completely > >broken > > > >and it can no longer provide protection (this related to ur > >posting " > > > >Rendah diri kaum wahhabi"). so to achieve that goal, we must pound > >on it > > > >with truth until it is smashed into pieces. > > > > > > > >Erick Fromm in, The Fear of Freedom, (Routledge 17 May 2001) > >upholds the > > > >idea that capitalism frees man from a society that reduces him to > >a single > > > >role, but at a price. The price is isolation. Man has to find or > >create > > > >his place in the world. This causes anxiety. Whilst fascism, > >Nazism, > > > >theocracies, and all forms of authoritarianisms, satisfy man's > > > >psychological need to belong. They provide a simple "us vs. them" > >ethos > > > >which gives the adherent something bigger to be a part of. Through > > > >conformity man tries to beat the anxiety of separation. That means > >loss of > > > >freedom and loss of independence. By conforming you belong, but > >you give > > > >up your wholeness and become a part of something else. > > > > > > > >The fear of being different, to be isolated, to become an outcast, > >is > > > >cause for anxiety and this is what makes us humans conform > >conform with > > > >the norms and the dictums of the society with its values, its > >standards, > > > >its mores and its wisdom. We need to find something to belong to. > >Our > > > >peers, our country, our religion and ultimately our faith/ideology > >give us > > > >security and the sense of belonging. They are shells that we carry > >along > > > >to hide within and feel safe. Therefore, we are protective of > >them. That > > > >is why we become defensive if our beliefs are challenged. People > >can > > > >become abusive, aggressive and even violent when their faith is > > > >threatened. That is why Socrates was forced to drink poison, > >Jordano Bruno > > > >was burned, Galileo was imprisoned, Jesus was crucified, Joan of > >Arc was > > > >incinerated. They died because they pioneered new ideas that > >threatened > > > >the faiths of the people. > > > > > > > >"What is Enlightenment?," the German philosopher Immanuel Kant > >wrote: > > > >"Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-imposed > >immaturity. > > > >Immaturity is the inability to use one's understanding without > >guidance > > > >from another. This immaturity is self-imposed when its cause lies > >not in > > > >lack of understanding, but in lack of resolve and courage to use > >it > > > >without guidance from another. Sapere Aude! [dare to know] `Have > >courage > > > >to use your own understanding!'--that is the motto of > >enlightenment." [3] > > > > > > > >the ppl who claimmed them selves as liberal muslim re the outcast > >muslim. > > > >they re a tiny voice in the islam community. still the wahhabist > >fundies > > > >outnumbered them. facts that there're growing number of fundies > >popularity > > > >these days not only in indonesia but all over the world. > > > > > > > >i agree with u, that we all have a home work to do. hopefully the > >voice of > > > >reason n humanity will break the shell of blind faith. (not only > >in ur > > > >religion but generally in all religions). > > > > > > > > > > > >peace > > > > > > > >Nugroho Dewanto > > > ><<mailto:ndewanto%40mail.tempo.co.id>ndewanto@> wrote: > > > > > > > >terserah anda mengatakan wahabi adalah islam yang sesungguhnya, > > > >atau islam yang murni. > > > > > > > >sebaliknya saya tak akan pernah mengatakan kristen sebagaimana > > > >diyakini george bush adalah kristen yang sesungguhnya, atau kristen > > > >yang murni. > > > > > > > >terlalu banyak orang besar kristen yang tak layak dibandingkan > >dengan > > > >seorang george bush yang acap mengutip injil dalam pidatonya. > > > > > > > >saya cuma akan mengatakan bahwa ideologi kebencian bisa > > > >datang dari mana saja. termasuk dari kalangan kita sendiri. > > > > > > > >kesetaraan, kemanusiaan dan kebebasan yang dulu diperjuangkan > > > >abraham lincoln di amerika --hingga dia terpaksa mendeklarasikan > >perang > > > >saudara yang menewaskan 640 ribu orang-- kini terancam oleh sebuah > > > >rezim yang kebijakannya didasari kredo untuk menegakkan > > > >"hak-hak kekristenan". > > > > > > > >alangkah menyedihkan. dan soal ini menjadi pr besar buat rakyat > >amerika. > > > > > > > >At 04:32 AM 11/14/2007 -0800, you wrote: > > > > > > > > >so i got the conclusion then, i think wahhabism is the real > >islam, it's > > > > >the pure islam. many of muslim scholar's apologist try to > >counter this > > > > >perception abt wahhabism is the real islam. but how can they > >counter the > > > > >Quran n hadith. how can they contradict Quran n hadith bcs by > >facts > > > > >wahhabism practicing the pure Quran n hadith. > > > > > > > > > >the universal values is not in one's religion, but in equality, > >humanity > > > > >and freedom. > > > > > > > > > >in my personal opinion, the best religion dont exist. it's > >delusional. the > > > > >true religion/belief i dont have a clue what it is, even an > >atheist > > > > >claimed what they believe is the truth. anyway, u dont have to > >agree with > > > > >me though, everyone has their own opinion n beliefs. it's their > >right. > > > > >their personal faith re their basic right . who am i to claim > >that > > > > >hindhuism re the true religion, or atheist re the best belief > >system? so > > > > >why bother? > > > > > > > > > >but now humanity has new enemy it's called- ideology of hatred. > >hitler had > > > > >tried once to genocide one race n to conquered europe, but he was > > > > >defeated. and died in shame. so this "ism" will also ended > >sooner or later. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >peace > > > > > > > > > > > > >--------------------------------- > > > >Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your > >homepage. > > > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >
