On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 11:01 AM, Aprilz <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Ok I may have been to quick to say that it is a proud community, I probably
> just found the previous Plone consultant that came over laughable, who had
> a
> "Plone can do everything!" mantra. Haha... Plus he encountered so many
> problems, as if broken stuff and fixing a gazillion problems were all a
> daily part working with of Plone! Made few of us newbies felt very worried.
> Other than that, he's a nice guy like other plone people.
>
Sometimes I get the "Plone can do everything" feeling myself, so I
understand.
Have to constantly remind myself, it's a cms, it's a cms and is strongest
with "cmsy" stuff.
>
> The manuals were confusing for us; the other newbies gave up.
> I copied parts from existing products instead, all while not knowing what
> they meant. But it kind of worked... So I'm relieved :) And that's a
> positive thing.
>
Good to know. Actually, I learnt alot about Plone by looking at other
persons' code. I guess the same is true for CSS (looking at
csszengarden.com) or for HTML (view source).
>
> I believe that basic products that allow you to add stuff into forms and
> display the form data would have been easy and is covered extensively in
> the
> manuals. But my task didn't need any forms...
>
Yeah, for products that don't need forms you'll want to become familiar with
browser views.
The idea is that you "register" a view in a zcml file, a typical view
includes a python (.py file) and a template (.pt file).
>
> But I still have a nagging feeling that putting so much html code into a
> python class is wrong?
> Like many many lines of: html += "<td id="xxx">"+something+"</td>"
>
Yeah... html in .py files is bad. You'll need to read up on ZPT. in the
context of browser views any methods in the .py file can be accessed as
view/{mymethod} in the ZPT file.
Hope this stuff helps. Very sorry about your poor initial introduction to
Plone :(.
>
>
> David Bain-5 wrote:
> >
> > Aprilz,
> > It is evident that you found Plone difficult to approach, but you
> > persisted
> > enough to find a way around the issue. (I may have completely
> > misunderstood
> > what you're saying, so please feel free to correct me on that first
> > statement). One of the goals of Plone 4 is to make it more approachable.
> > We
> > certainly wouldn't want persons to run away screaming for any of the
> > reasons
> > you have mentioned.
> >
> > You mentioned:
> > 1. speed (too slow)
> > 2. too complex (things in too many places)
> > 3. secretive and proud community (this hasn't been my experience, so I'm
> > definitely surprised about that one)
> > 4. The most prominent manual (Professional Plone Development) is not in
> > depth enough (again, this hasn't been my experience, but I respect your
> > perspective).
> >
> > Hope I got that right.
> >
> > Do you have suggestions from your experience as to what would make Plone
> > more approachable for you?
> >
> > Also, was there anything positive that you'd say was a valuable?
> >
> > BTW, if I understand you correctly you eventually did most of the "work"
> > in
> > a python class, instead of leaking business logic into page templates, if
> > this is correct, then you did the right thing.
> --
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>
>
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