> It's clear the cynical campaign of fear, emnity and hate like > the one described by Ed's Calvin cartoon but funded by real > "movers and shakers" like George Soros has persuaded you > believe the absolute worst about your fellow citizens.
There we go with the plays-on-words. Nobody said a single word about fellow citizens. That cartoon has to do with fund-raising tactics. > I do not consider myself a neo-con, mainly because of my > contrary views on trade and global economics, but those views > put me at odds with the neo-liberals too, so I look at the > neo-cons mostly sans the "neo" because there is no other > palatable way for me to view them. Even then there is much to > wince at (so much for fiscal conservatism...). You sound like you're lost for a label to put on your shirt. Forget about it, the other plays-with-words folks have long since trashed all words that once meant something. > Plus, I quite independently came to the conclusion that the > Islamonazi threat is real and the whack jobs who represent > them are a greater threat, yea, than even the Jew-loving > neo-cons, having watched a few videos of their handiwork and > the carnage they wreak daily in Iraq, Israel and wherever > they happen to be, preaching their ideology of hate, bigotry > and destruction. At worst our neo-cons are guilty of being > deluded and misguided about their ability to pollinate > democracy across the globe, but their underlying motives are > not "contrary to American values". They are precisely contrary to American values. They took the power onto themselves to do as they did. That action usurped our founding notion of gov't of/by/for the people. The evidence is clear enough today, as people recover from the fog of the propaganda onslaught that surrounded the launching of that invasion and now say "it was a mistake". It wasn't a mistake, they were duped. And nobody - but yourself and your heckler companion - is talking about Jews, one way or the other. My and this country's problem with the ME has to do with Big Oil influence, the military's insatiable appetite, and "soldiers of Israel" who have abused this country to further their ambitions. I distinguish between ordinary people of any religion and those on a mission that hurts my country. You are obviously trying to play-with-words on this distinction by continuously insinuating that I'm a dreaded anti-semite. Easy card to play though, and arguably an effective one, but I'm tired of hearing it. The message you're pushing is that, having discovered the neocon ranks are heavily Jewish, anyone who speaks against them is therefore an anti-semite. Same reasoning applies to AIPAC as well, I'm sure. Maybe that's how these "soldiers" became so influential? Why don't you take a good look at how the Palestinians are faring under Israeli authority? Is that a gov't you want influencing your gov't? A model of what? And, if we followed that model, wouldn't we be a Christian state? Who is supposed to be leading who? I know you wouldn't answer these questions, you never do. > The argument that they are worse than the preachers of hate > in the ME who have turned it into such a hellhole and kept it > that way for centuries with their brutal theocratic and > autocratic rule is, in my opinion, a pretty distorted view of > reality. So the gang decided that the only solution was to unleash our mighty war machine upon them, and that's exactly what they did. Did they discover that the occupier is always removed? Did they discover that ME countries will decide their own fate? Do you wonder if anyone knew these things before the invasion was launched? Do you think we're stronger and better off today by following the neocon plan? Do you think we should follow it to the bitter end? You allude to having deserted them, but you'll defend them anyway. Conflicted, or just more plays-with-words? I suffer no such conflict/neurosis. I'm saying they have caused us tremendous harm with their quest and that justice will not be served until they are held accountable for what they've done. That's what I believe is needed to restore America's image in the world - and a cornerstone for rebuilding the UN that we seriously need for disarmament (that is, *before* a nuke goes off somewhere). > They are a bunch of policy wonks who, having been > given a blank check to do what they think is right, are > finding the cause-effect graph they assumed was inexorable > has a bit more ply in it than they imagined previously. Such > is getting what you wish for. The ostensible "other side" may > soon get their opportunity, and I look forward to their hopes > being shattered too. That's just babble. There are no sides, what you see is just an illusion. And yes, it's the wrong picture. But that doesn't mean there isn't a right picture to be had - we just have to clear the way. > I also think you should be a little humbler about statements > such as "They are the worst thing that could possibly have > happened to this country." That statement takes into account what they've already done + the fact that we're now stuck holding the bag and will be forced to pay whatever price remains - which will be substantial in it's own right. Taken together, it's far and away the biggest debacle this nation has ever suffered. > I'm frankly a little surprised > that your imagination has been so severely blunted by the > propaganda you've internalized. You're projecting, Bob - if you understand the term. You project that people are not capable of reflective thought, that we talk merely to echo the thoughts of others. > I can think of many things far worse. So can I, but that means absolutely nothing. We are today engaged in a very serious military action that we don't know how to get out of. Sure, things can always get worse, but if it weren't happening and you asked what would be the worst that could happen, the first response would be "we could be at war". Well, we are at war. Do you really think this war is going to be played out with other people's kids doing the dirty work? Can't you see that formula has collapsed, and don't you have any idea of what that means? If you want to see how things can get worse, then continue to support the neocon plan. Bill > - Bob > _______________________________________________ Post Messages to: [email protected] Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
