At 08:31 PM 2/21/2008 -0300, Ricardo Aráoz wrote: >Charlie Coleman wrote: > > At 09:23 PM 2/20/2008 -0300, Ricardo Aráoz wrote:
> > ... > >> That's a nice thought.... in an unlimited world. Sadly the world's > >> resources are finite, so if someone gets more than he needs he is > >> certainly taking it from someone else. > > > > Yep, the world has finite resources. So, as an atheist you think there is > > no basis for moral behavior other than what we make for ourselves. > Wouldn't > > that mean that whomever is the strongest should immediately wipe out all > > the lesser peoples? > >Well, maybe I am a better person than you are. The moral behavior I make >for myself wouldn't say that. Would you REALLY do that if you had no >external constraints( by external I mean religion, law, peer pressure, etc)? Believe me, I make no claims about being morally superior to someone else. I've got my problems. But what I'm wondering is where you get your basis of morals. If all we really have is ourselves as the basis, then who is to say who is right and wrong? If one society says live and let live, and one says kill everyone that doesn't produce their weight in crops, what determines if either one is wrong? And then, since there really isn't a right and wrong, and realizing the world has limited resources, it would seem the "logical" or "moral" choice would keep the population at acceptable levels by any means possible. And since there really is no basis for right and wrong, the nation or society that had the most strength to ensure its survival should immediately take steps to make sure it is the one that gets to remain. But what would I do if I became an atheist? Hmm... I've never really thought about it much. There would be a lot of baggage I'd have to look at. I mean all the ethics and such that I've studied would be meaningless. The only true driving factor would be me and my family's survival, happiness, etc. Caring about other people would get put at a much lower priority unless they could do something for me. Then, I'd have to consider that if everyone else was thinking the same, that I better prepare to defend myself: just as you mentioned, if someone gets more than he needs he is taking from someone else. In fact, with unlimited population growth, if people get JUST what they need, they may be taking from someone else. All that is wild speculation though since I've never been an atheist. Which is why I'm asking you these type questions: to try and understand how an atheist thinks. > > It would seem justified since finite resources mean > > limited ability to support population. Why are you so against the US > > invading other countries, you should be grateful we're thinning out > > populations. I mean heck, you should be starting wars too. Maybe your > > country will get wiped out but the upside is more resources for the > > victors. Doesn't that make our species stronger in the end? So why don't > > you believe that war is a good thing? > >There is a saying : "El ladrón cree que todos son de su condición" >Which roughly and without rhyme would mean that the thief believes every >one else is of his condition. >Sound a bell? Sound a bell? Hmmm, not really. I was asking why you don't believe war is a good thing. I personally don't believe war is a good thing. It has to happen sometimes, but it's not good. And, actually, that Spanish (?) saying could probably be changed to "Everyone believes everyone else is of his condition." I call this "projection." The most evident example is where people say if we just talk to the terrorists enough, we'll understand what they want and we'll be able to achieve peace. Now, whether or not that's true, the reason people say it is NOT because they truly understand how terrorists think, how they were schooled, how they were raised: people say that because they know how THEY would respond if someone talked to THEM. That's a little off the question I asked I think. So, do you have an explanation of why wars to thin out populations is a bad thing? -Charlie _______________________________________________ Post Messages to: [email protected] Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
