If we think of this in J terms, we might treat "more" as a verb such as
more=: > Then your first sentence becomes a question about 3 > ,2 which has an answer which matches ,1. Your second sentence would involve more work to translate to J. I could translate it as (3 > $0) +. 3 > 4 1 ... but this gives us a length error, and our distaste for errors might drive us further afield, to find another translation for "or". If we felt exploratory, we might try: or=: ; so another almost plausible translation could be ($0) ;&(3&>) $4 1 Put differently, english is a wonderful language for expressing ambiguities and translation tends to freeze some of those ambiguities in the resulting work. With J we are also faced with ambiguities, but because it is an executable notation we get another perspective on ambiguities of expression, where different expressions might achieve the same end. Thanks, -- Raul On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 9:57 PM, Henry Rich <[email protected]> wrote: > IMO, the question comes down to, Is 3 more than ,2 ? This would lead us to > wonder whether 3 is more than $0 or 4 1, and to realize that the situation > would at least need consideration. Then we would agree that #$y, even if no > more correct, is 'better', in that its meaning does not require > consideration. This idea of 'better' holds that a is better than b if a is > true and b is false OR (when both are true) if a is more comprehensible to > readers of good will. > > I certainly wouldn't want Roger to make this change to the Dictionary. That > should be left to others. There are many more important things for Roger to > do. > > Henry Rich > > > On 10/5/2013 9:24 PM, Roger Hui wrote: >> >> The dictionary entry says: >> >> In general, if y is not an atom, x may be a list of length not more than >> $$y , and if y is an atom, it is replaced by ((#x)$1)$y . Element k >> produces (k{x){."(($$y)-k) y ; an infinite value is replaced by the length >> of the corresponding axis. >> >> >> The statement is correct, both formally (executes on a computer) and >> informally, if it says $$y or #$y. If it is correct, then it is not a >> mistake. It is not to say that # and $ are interchangeable in all >> situations. >> >> >> >> >> On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 6:13 PM, Ganesh Rapolu <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Brevity is not always conducive to understanding. I would be grateful if >>> you gave an explanation >>> as to why this flexibility in the rank of a length is not a mistake. >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 3:01 PM, Roger Hui <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> If it is a mistake I'd correct it, but it's not a mistake. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 5:44 PM, Ganesh Rapolu <[email protected]> >>> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> I am having difficulty finding reasons other than tradition that a >>> >>> length >>>>> >>>>> should be allowed to be a list. >>>>> >>>>> badlength =. $ >>>>> mean =. +/ % badlength >>>>> $ mean"1 i. 5 5 >>>>> 5 1 >>>>> >>>>> Of course, J already does the right thing by providing # . It might be >>> >>> in >>>>> >>>>> the spirit of J to continue to correct mistakes made in APL by >>> >>> correcting >>>>> >>>>> the documentation for take. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 2:19 PM, Roger Hui <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> It is traditional in APL (and APL-like) systems that a length is a >>> >>> list >>>>> >>>>> or >>>>>> >>>>>> a scalar. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 4:53 PM, Ganesh Rapolu <[email protected]> >>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Although it is the case that for a verb v and integer k, v"k and >>> >>> v"(, >>>>> >>>>> k) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> are the same, it might be confusing if the length referred to in >>> >>> the >>>>>> >>>>>> phrase >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 'x may be a list of length not more than $$y' is not a scalar. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 1:36 PM, Roger Hui < >>> >>> [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Both $$y or #$y are correct in this case. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 4:14 PM, Ganesh Rapolu < >>> >>> [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> In the last paragraph, $$y should be #$y. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> For information about J forums see >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> For information about J forums see >>>>> >>>>> http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For information about J forums see >>>> >>>> http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> >>>>>> For information about J forums see >>> >>> http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >>>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >>>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
