Thanks Pascal,

Your suggestions informed and improved my decisions significantly :)

I will give some more thought to your suggestions about the literals, but 
currently I am working on a bug that Brian Schott pointed out to me earlier. It 
shows up when you put +/"2 i. 2 3 5 into the textbox. The " truncates the 
sentence although it displays properly because the " is an active character in 
html and that string is inserted into HBS. I have tried a couple of ways 
including using jhfroma_jhs_ to replace the active characters, but this creates 
a problem later when you make a change to the textbox and try to run the 
display again.

Any ideas on the best way to populate a textbox with characters in a clean 
fashion would be appreciated. 

I am currently working from vlitejwiki.ijs an attachment to this page

http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/BobTherriault/Visualize

Cheers, bob

On Feb 14, 2014, at 9:05 PM, Pascal Jasmin <[email protected]> wrote:

> Looks great.  good decisions on everything, 
> 
> a thought for an alternative for strings would be putting 
> '<--at start'
> 'and end    '
> 
> this assumes that space is the fill.  a unique colour for text is good for 
> '123'
> I'm not completely sure why J doesn't do that already, but if the goal is to 
> not have extra ascii characters in the display, and I am guessing clipboard 
> to text/log files, so perhaps some graphical bookends to a string would let 
> it be copied easily while taking less space?
> 
> A simpler style for strings would be to just change the backcolor, so 
> trailing spaces would be visible, and no clipboard issues.
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: robert therriault <[email protected]>
> To: Programming forum <[email protected]>
> Cc: 
> Sent: Friday, February 14, 2014 2:36:59 AM
> Subject: Re: [Jprogramming] problem matching boxed string
> 
> Just to finish the job, here is a link to a video screencast of the display 
> style for the skinnier look. http://wp.me/p1rSg-8x
> 
> Cheers, bob
> 
> On Feb 12, 2014, at 6:04 PM, robert therriault <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
>> Well, I am not sure I would call it a nice example, but I am glad to hear 
>> that it does work. 
>> 
>> I also added a second script that has a 'skinnier' look. Haven't had time to 
>> finish a video on that one yet.
>> 
>> http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/http:/www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/BobTherriault/Visualize?action=AttachFile&do=view⌖=vlitejwiki.ijs
>> 
>> Cheers, bob
>> 
>> On Feb 12, 2014, at 4:44 PM, Joe Bogner <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>>> bob, thanks again for sharing. It works really well and is also a nice JHS
>>> example.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 9:08 PM, robert therriault 
>>> <[email protected]>wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Thanks Pascal,
>>>> 
>>>> Believe it or not I did simplify this quite a bit from where I originally
>>>> was, based on you previous comments. I'll play around some more to see if I
>>>> can slim it down further and still have it intuitive (which is actually one
>>>> of the targets that I am aiming for in addition to the 'different things
>>>> should display differently')
>>>> 
>>>> I have attached the script of the simple test page to the wiki at
>>>> 
>>>> http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/http%3A/www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/BobTherriault/Visualize?action=AttachFile
>>>> 
>>>> If you want to play.
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers, bob
>>>> 
>>>> On Feb 11, 2014, at 9:53 AM, Pascal Jasmin <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I like it.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'll restate my preference for simpler css.  Using colour only if boxes
>>>> aren't completely necessary (datatype).
>>>>> 
>>>>> I understand the desire to deal with leading 0 shapes, but I think
>>>> leading 1 shapes are what byte people/beginers the most.  For instance
>>>> assuming that }. and {: produce identical results with 2 elements.
>>>>> 
>>>>> So, if there was a way to only box-decorate items when there is a
>>>> leading 1 or 0 dimension, I think it would be very helpful without being as
>>>> noisy.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: robert therriault <[email protected]>
>>>>> To: Programming forum <[email protected]>
>>>>> Cc:
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 12:14:14 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Jprogramming] problem matching boxed string
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks Raul,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I am currently working on the boxing display and you are right, it does
>>>> present some different challenges. My plan is to have the script on the
>>>> wiki for general amusement later this afternoon. I have put this together
>>>> as a way to see the results of the language in a way that I found more
>>>> useful and it involves a mix of html, css and J, so as far as coding I
>>>> think of myself as a hobbyist rather than a pro.
>>>>> 
>>>>> It should not be hard to change the size of the empty spots and I think
>>>> that is a really good idea. The nice thing about CSS is that you can change
>>>> appearance across classes, although the complexity can avalanche when you
>>>> start to decide how classes will display based on the context of other
>>>> classes.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Anyway, I will post when I have the script up on the jwiki.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Cheers, bob
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 11, 2014, at 8:51 AM, Raul Miller <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> This looks promising.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I currently have two quibbles which you might want to reject:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> First, the additional markup seems to get in the way for some typical
>>>>>> cases. I can see the need for leading 1 dimensions and embedded zero
>>>>>> dimensions. I understand the idea of consistent display of information,
>>>> but
>>>>>> there's so much going on when arrays have no zeros or ones in their
>>>> shape
>>>>>> and I can't help but wonder if a reduced complexity presentation might
>>>> be
>>>>>> nice, at least as a later option?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Second, when there are zeros in the shape, the placeholders are the same
>>>>>> size and "shape" (ha ha, get it? shape... eh... maybe you had to be
>>>> there)
>>>>>> as when data is present. Maybe you could shrink the cell size for empty
>>>>>> cells?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I should also probably watch it again for how you display boxed data.
>>>> One
>>>>>> of my worries is that with so much decoration on "flat" arrays that
>>>> boxing
>>>>>> will get lost in the noise.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> That said, from a user point of view, I can totally imagine wanting to
>>>> be
>>>>>> able to customize this, and I can also imagine not wanting to touch it
>>>> and
>>>>>> wanting it to lead me off to some other page that shows me how to reason
>>>>>> about it, and I can also imagine wanting to take the data and wanting to
>>>>>> play with it and render it in other ways. So I guess also there are
>>>> plenty
>>>>>> of opportunities for the future.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If I were a manager, though, I might want you to ship it right now, the
>>>> way
>>>>>> it is.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Fortunately, you don't have to please me. I do not know what I would
>>>> want
>>>>>> if I were just starting. We need more beginners, and maybe that is
>>>>>> something we can do something about, over the next few weeks and months.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Raul
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 10:21 AM, robert therriault
>>>>>> <[email protected]>wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Just an update on the visualization of J results.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I have done a second video/blog post on using CSS and HTML to display
>>>>>>> results on JHS. It provides examples of a system that allows you to
>>>>>>> distinguish between 1 $ 1 ,  1 1 $1 , and 1 as well as displaying
>>>> arrays
>>>>>>> with zeros in the shape such as 0 1 $ 1 and 1 0 $ 1.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Blog post is here:
>>>>>>> 
>>>> http://bobtherriault.wordpress.com/2014/02/11/using-css-and-html-to-display-the-shapes-of-arrays-on-the-jhs-platform/?relatedposts_exclude=513
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Cheers, bob
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Feb 4, 2014, at 8:25 AM, robert therriault <[email protected]>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Feb 4, 2014, at 5:29 AM, Raul Miller <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Of course you will also get an error if you try to combine one of
>>>>>>>>> those with another array of the wrong shape. Error conditions are one
>>>>>>>>> of the cases where I like getting the shapes of arrays.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Sometimes the zeros can affect the result even though they can't be
>>>> seen
>>>>>>> in the display
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> $ ( 0 2 3 $ 4), 5 7 $5
>>>>>>>> 1 5 7
>>>>>>>> $ (0 0 2 3 $ 4), 5 7 $5
>>>>>>>> 1 1 5 7
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I am looking for ways to give the programmer some 'leverage' into
>>>> these
>>>>>>> situations by the ways that shapes are displayed
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> One of my favorite tricks, if I am getting an error from an
>>>> expression
>>>>>>>>> that seems to be due to of a lack of shapeliness (like a length
>>>> error)
>>>>>>>>> is to replace the last verb with $ (or a variation like ;&$ or $&.>
>>>> or
>>>>>>>>> ;&($ L:0) or whatever else).
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> And that brings up another issue related to finding the shapes of
>>>>>>>>> things: the shape inside a box will typically be different from the
>>>>>>>>> shape outside the box (these shapes are "independent" of each other).
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Yep, I am working on boxes at the moment and it is a challenge for
>>>>>>> display while retaining the independent shape of contents.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Also, the shape of transitory arrays (intermediate results) can also
>>>>>>>>> matter. So familiarity with debugging tools and techniques can be
>>>>>>>>> crucial - sometimes even more important for coding than familiarity
>>>>>>>>> with shape and rank issues. (These are not, properly speaking, a part
>>>>>>>>> of the language itself so much as they are a part of the environment.
>>>>>>>>> But that's something of a technicality.)
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> No doubt. Display can't replace knowing how rank and shape work. I am
>>>>>>> hoping that a little better way of displaying results will make it
>>>> easier
>>>>>>> to see the differences and may emphasize the importance of
>>>> understanding
>>>>>>> the concepts to those learning the language - that would be me!
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Cheers, bob
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> For information about J forums see
>>>> http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
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