Thanks Pascal, Your suggestions informed and improved my decisions significantly :)
I will give some more thought to your suggestions about the literals, but currently I am working on a bug that Brian Schott pointed out to me earlier. It shows up when you put +/"2 i. 2 3 5 into the textbox. The " truncates the sentence although it displays properly because the " is an active character in html and that string is inserted into HBS. I have tried a couple of ways including using jhfroma_jhs_ to replace the active characters, but this creates a problem later when you make a change to the textbox and try to run the display again. Any ideas on the best way to populate a textbox with characters in a clean fashion would be appreciated. I am currently working from vlitejwiki.ijs an attachment to this page http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/BobTherriault/Visualize Cheers, bob On Feb 14, 2014, at 9:05 PM, Pascal Jasmin <[email protected]> wrote: > Looks great. good decisions on everything, > > a thought for an alternative for strings would be putting > '<--at start' > 'and end ' > > this assumes that space is the fill. a unique colour for text is good for > '123' > I'm not completely sure why J doesn't do that already, but if the goal is to > not have extra ascii characters in the display, and I am guessing clipboard > to text/log files, so perhaps some graphical bookends to a string would let > it be copied easily while taking less space? > > A simpler style for strings would be to just change the backcolor, so > trailing spaces would be visible, and no clipboard issues. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: robert therriault <[email protected]> > To: Programming forum <[email protected]> > Cc: > Sent: Friday, February 14, 2014 2:36:59 AM > Subject: Re: [Jprogramming] problem matching boxed string > > Just to finish the job, here is a link to a video screencast of the display > style for the skinnier look. http://wp.me/p1rSg-8x > > Cheers, bob > > On Feb 12, 2014, at 6:04 PM, robert therriault <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Well, I am not sure I would call it a nice example, but I am glad to hear >> that it does work. >> >> I also added a second script that has a 'skinnier' look. Haven't had time to >> finish a video on that one yet. >> >> http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/http:/www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/BobTherriault/Visualize?action=AttachFile&do=view⌖=vlitejwiki.ijs >> >> Cheers, bob >> >> On Feb 12, 2014, at 4:44 PM, Joe Bogner <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> bob, thanks again for sharing. It works really well and is also a nice JHS >>> example. >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 9:08 PM, robert therriault >>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks Pascal, >>>> >>>> Believe it or not I did simplify this quite a bit from where I originally >>>> was, based on you previous comments. I'll play around some more to see if I >>>> can slim it down further and still have it intuitive (which is actually one >>>> of the targets that I am aiming for in addition to the 'different things >>>> should display differently') >>>> >>>> I have attached the script of the simple test page to the wiki at >>>> >>>> http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/http%3A/www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/BobTherriault/Visualize?action=AttachFile >>>> >>>> If you want to play. >>>> >>>> Cheers, bob >>>> >>>> On Feb 11, 2014, at 9:53 AM, Pascal Jasmin <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I like it. >>>>> >>>>> I'll restate my preference for simpler css. Using colour only if boxes >>>> aren't completely necessary (datatype). >>>>> >>>>> I understand the desire to deal with leading 0 shapes, but I think >>>> leading 1 shapes are what byte people/beginers the most. For instance >>>> assuming that }. and {: produce identical results with 2 elements. >>>>> >>>>> So, if there was a way to only box-decorate items when there is a >>>> leading 1 or 0 dimension, I think it would be very helpful without being as >>>> noisy. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: robert therriault <[email protected]> >>>>> To: Programming forum <[email protected]> >>>>> Cc: >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 12:14:14 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [Jprogramming] problem matching boxed string >>>>> >>>>> Thanks Raul, >>>>> >>>>> I am currently working on the boxing display and you are right, it does >>>> present some different challenges. My plan is to have the script on the >>>> wiki for general amusement later this afternoon. I have put this together >>>> as a way to see the results of the language in a way that I found more >>>> useful and it involves a mix of html, css and J, so as far as coding I >>>> think of myself as a hobbyist rather than a pro. >>>>> >>>>> It should not be hard to change the size of the empty spots and I think >>>> that is a really good idea. The nice thing about CSS is that you can change >>>> appearance across classes, although the complexity can avalanche when you >>>> start to decide how classes will display based on the context of other >>>> classes. >>>>> >>>>> Anyway, I will post when I have the script up on the jwiki. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, bob >>>>> >>>>> On Feb 11, 2014, at 8:51 AM, Raul Miller <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> This looks promising. >>>>>> >>>>>> I currently have two quibbles which you might want to reject: >>>>>> >>>>>> First, the additional markup seems to get in the way for some typical >>>>>> cases. I can see the need for leading 1 dimensions and embedded zero >>>>>> dimensions. I understand the idea of consistent display of information, >>>> but >>>>>> there's so much going on when arrays have no zeros or ones in their >>>> shape >>>>>> and I can't help but wonder if a reduced complexity presentation might >>>> be >>>>>> nice, at least as a later option? >>>>>> >>>>>> Second, when there are zeros in the shape, the placeholders are the same >>>>>> size and "shape" (ha ha, get it? shape... eh... maybe you had to be >>>> there) >>>>>> as when data is present. Maybe you could shrink the cell size for empty >>>>>> cells? >>>>>> >>>>>> I should also probably watch it again for how you display boxed data. >>>> One >>>>>> of my worries is that with so much decoration on "flat" arrays that >>>> boxing >>>>>> will get lost in the noise. >>>>>> >>>>>> That said, from a user point of view, I can totally imagine wanting to >>>> be >>>>>> able to customize this, and I can also imagine not wanting to touch it >>>> and >>>>>> wanting it to lead me off to some other page that shows me how to reason >>>>>> about it, and I can also imagine wanting to take the data and wanting to >>>>>> play with it and render it in other ways. So I guess also there are >>>> plenty >>>>>> of opportunities for the future. >>>>>> >>>>>> If I were a manager, though, I might want you to ship it right now, the >>>> way >>>>>> it is. >>>>>> >>>>>> Fortunately, you don't have to please me. I do not know what I would >>>> want >>>>>> if I were just starting. We need more beginners, and maybe that is >>>>>> something we can do something about, over the next few weeks and months. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Raul >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 10:21 AM, robert therriault >>>>>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Just an update on the visualization of J results. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have done a second video/blog post on using CSS and HTML to display >>>>>>> results on JHS. It provides examples of a system that allows you to >>>>>>> distinguish between 1 $ 1 , 1 1 $1 , and 1 as well as displaying >>>> arrays >>>>>>> with zeros in the shape such as 0 1 $ 1 and 1 0 $ 1. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Blog post is here: >>>>>>> >>>> http://bobtherriault.wordpress.com/2014/02/11/using-css-and-html-to-display-the-shapes-of-arrays-on-the-jhs-platform/?relatedposts_exclude=513 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, bob >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Feb 4, 2014, at 8:25 AM, robert therriault <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Feb 4, 2014, at 5:29 AM, Raul Miller <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Of course you will also get an error if you try to combine one of >>>>>>>>> those with another array of the wrong shape. Error conditions are one >>>>>>>>> of the cases where I like getting the shapes of arrays. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sometimes the zeros can affect the result even though they can't be >>>> seen >>>>>>> in the display >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> $ ( 0 2 3 $ 4), 5 7 $5 >>>>>>>> 1 5 7 >>>>>>>> $ (0 0 2 3 $ 4), 5 7 $5 >>>>>>>> 1 1 5 7 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I am looking for ways to give the programmer some 'leverage' into >>>> these >>>>>>> situations by the ways that shapes are displayed >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> One of my favorite tricks, if I am getting an error from an >>>> expression >>>>>>>>> that seems to be due to of a lack of shapeliness (like a length >>>> error) >>>>>>>>> is to replace the last verb with $ (or a variation like ;&$ or $&.> >>>> or >>>>>>>>> ;&($ L:0) or whatever else). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> And that brings up another issue related to finding the shapes of >>>>>>>>> things: the shape inside a box will typically be different from the >>>>>>>>> shape outside the box (these shapes are "independent" of each other). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yep, I am working on boxes at the moment and it is a challenge for >>>>>>> display while retaining the independent shape of contents. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Also, the shape of transitory arrays (intermediate results) can also >>>>>>>>> matter. So familiarity with debugging tools and techniques can be >>>>>>>>> crucial - sometimes even more important for coding than familiarity >>>>>>>>> with shape and rank issues. (These are not, properly speaking, a part >>>>>>>>> of the language itself so much as they are a part of the environment. >>>>>>>>> But that's something of a technicality.) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> No doubt. Display can't replace knowing how rank and shape work. I am >>>>>>> hoping that a little better way of displaying results will make it >>>> easier >>>>>>> to see the differences and may emphasize the importance of >>>> understanding >>>>>>> the concepts to those learning the language - that would be me! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Cheers, bob >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>> For information about J forums see >>>> http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >>>>>>> >>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >>>>> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >>>>> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >>>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
