Note the past tense on that judgement. Thanks,
-- Raul On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 10:34 PM, Dabrowski, Andrew John <[email protected]> wrote: > Parsing midi files is something I've done a little of. Why did you > consider J unsuited for that? Is it not great at string manipulation? > It seems inconvenient to have all strings in an array forced to be of > the same length. > > > On 11/28/2017 04:56 PM, Henry Rich wrote: >> There's nothing specific to databases about the value of J. I've never >> done anything with databases before my current project. I've used J >> to model the transformation pipeline of a graphics processor, the >> texture-mapping system of a flight simulator, a stock-trading program, >> a program to play Connect Four, a lot of code for recording and >> manipulating MP3 files, a fair amount of image processing... The only >> project I ever had that I considered J ill-suited for was parsing MIDI >> files, and that was pretty early in my J life & I could do it better now. >> >> Henry RIch >> >> >> On 11/28/2017 4:38 PM, Andrew Dabrowski wrote: >>> Thanks. I keep forgetting that J and its emulators are really popular >>> for databases. That's not something I deal with, so perhaps that's >>> why I'm blind to some of its virtues. >>> >>> >>> On 11/28/2017 04:21 PM, Henry Rich wrote: >>>> I use J for all my own work because I get results fast. Example: I >>>> am currently working on a database project, a big key/value store >>>> written as about 200KLOC of C++, and I proposed a major design >>>> change. Management was supportive but concerned, so I offered to >>>> write a simulation of the system including the changes. I said I >>>> could do it in 8 days, and using J, I did. Well worth doing, too, as >>>> it led to refinements in the design. I don't know how long it would >>>> have taken in C/C++, but I would be thinking months rather than days. >>>> >>>> The combination of interpretive execution, terseness of expression, >>>> and array-level thinking makes me more productive using J than I've >>>> ever been in a scalar language. I completely disagree with you >>>> about languages being equally good. When it comes to getting a >>>> program up and running quickly, J has an edge in most of the places >>>> I've used it. >>> Yes, but for rapid development isn't Python (or Mathematica) just as >>> good if not better? >>>> >>>> J is a language for describing a computation. C/C++ is a language >>>> for telling a computer how to execute a computation. >>> I like that distinction. But J seems to get bogged down in syntactic >>> issues. As a beginner I find it impossible to parse a moderately >>> sized tacit expression. No doubt one gets better at this, but like >>> all computer languages, the one dimensional space it lives in seems >>> to confound any attempts to represent mathematical ideas directly. >>> >>> A computer language based on mathematical notation sounds like a cool >>> but impractical idea. It would to have to be 2 dimensional, as in >>> fact math notation is. >>> >>>> If you don't need to focus on the execution details - that is, if >>>> you can take your head out from under the hood and think only about >>>> what needs to be done - you can save a lot of time and effort by >>>> staying at the higher level. You have to train yourself to do that, >>>> though, and doing so is harder than you would expect. >>>> >>>> Henry Rich >>>> >>>> On 11/28/2017 3:59 PM, Andrew Dabrowski wrote: >>>>> As much as I've complained about J in these forums I've been having >>>>> a good time translating some simple code into J. Someone gave me >>>>> wise advice, to stick with explicit definitions until I know the >>>>> language well, which advice I have cordially ignored because I'm >>>>> having too much fun playing code golf with tacit tangles. >>>>> >>>>> I was fascinated by J because it seemed to try to build on aspects >>>>> of the human linguistic system. Natural language unfolds in one >>>>> dimension, time, so everything relevant to understanding a >>>>> particular word in a sentence either came before it or is yet to >>>>> come. J seemed to emulate this by having verbs which relate >>>>> directly only to objects on the immediate left and immediate >>>>> right. Moreover J seemed to be following a linguistic paradigm in >>>>> have nouns which are inert, verbs that act on nouns, and adverbs >>>>> which modify objects. This seemed like a promising way to exploit >>>>> humans' natural linguistic capabilities. >>>>> >>>>> But maybe that's not way the J community currently sees J. Do you >>>>> love J most because of (pick only one) >>>>> >>>>> 1. the NL inspired syntax; >>>>> >>>>> 2. the suite of array utilities; >>>>> >>>>> 3. the concision of J code; >>>>> >>>>> 4. its being open-source; or >>>>> >>>>> 5. _____________________? >>>>> >>>>> I've come to feel that all programming languages are ugly >>>>> compromises that are about equally good/bad at solving practical >>>>> problems, and the "best" language is just the one you know the >>>>> best. I used to be contemptuous of Perl, but after having learned >>>>> it well enough for my purposes I now kind of enjoy the brain teaser >>>>> quality of trying to fit problems into its procrustean bed >>>>> (although I still think it's a silly language). I have no doubt >>>>> that I could live happily with J as my primary language, but only >>>>> after an extended period of being handcuffed to it and forced to >>>>> assimilate its quirks. I don't know that I'll have the patience >>>>> for that. >>>>> >>>>> Is there any project in the J repos that demonstrates the strength >>>>> of J, as opposed to just showing that it's at least as good as >>>>> other languages? Any project that would have been significantly >>>>> harder to complete with say Python? Does J have any killer >>>>> advantage, even in just one aspect of programming? Or does J just >>>>> appeal to you the way pistachio ice-cream might, it just tickles >>>>> your palate in a no-accounting-for-taste way? That's how it appeals >>>>> to me. >>>>> >>>>> I was hoping someone could talk me into studying J seriously, but >>>>> now it looks to me like a language which, with APL, has had >>>>> enormous beneficial influence on many other languages, but which >>>>> has failed to learn in its turn from them. J seems a tad solipsistic. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >>>> >>>> >>>> --- >>>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. >>>> http://www.avg.com >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
