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Pada tanggal 03/05/07, hadjar_wish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> menulis: > > > Nggak ada bukti arkeologis bahwa al-Mushaf usmani itu memagnpernah ada. > > Dan nggak ada bukti yang dibaca diabad ke VIII Masehi di Madinah sama > dengan am-Mushaf yang ada sekarang. > > Kenyataan: > > al-Mushaf itu tidak selalu sama isinya, suka berubah-ubah. > > Sekarang saja ada dua versi, yaitu versi Kairo yang juga beredad > diIndonesia, versi Magrib dan sejak tahun 1972 kita punya palimpsest > dan perkamen yang beda lagi. > >--- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, "hadingrh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > hehehe .. yg dijamin adalah keaslian al quran dari yg dibaca jaman > > onta sampai si entot dungu mampu ngirim posting di kampung petar.. > > > > Robert Hoyland : > > the historical memory of the Muslim community is more robust than some > > have claimed. > > > > John Burton: > > What we have today in our hands is the Mushaf of Muhammad. > > > > jadi tidak ada ruang lagi untuk memperebatkan lagi keotentikan al > quran.. > > bahwa quran jaman onta sama dengan jaman dimana orang dungu sudah bisa > > ngepost email di kampung petar ... > > > > --- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, "hadjar_wish" <hadjar@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Jadi Allah fiktif itu - tentu saja - tidak becus memenuhi janjinya > > > untuk menjaga keutuhan al-Mushaf. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, "hadingrh" <hadingrh@> wrote: > > > > > > > > hehehe ... apa kamu ngerti apa yg kamu masalahkan ? > > > > bukan cuman makna, tapi ayatnya tidak berubah ... hanya cara > penulisan > > > > > > > > apa kamu menuntut agar pada waktu itu sudah ada eyd (ejaan yg > > > > disempurnakan) ? > > > > mungkin kamu tertarik jg mempermasalahkan 'entot tjahyadi' dengan > > > > 'entot cahyadi' sbg orang yg berbeda ? .. > > > > > > > > --- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, "hadjar_wish" <hadjar@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jadi, Allah fiktif yang digambarkan dungu, buas, kejam, ganas dan > > > > > biadab oleh al-Mushaf itu tidak bisa - tentu saja - memenuhi > > janjinya > > > > > untuk menjaga am-Musahf itu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, "hadingrh" <hadingrh@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > sebuah gaya tulisan atau spelling means nothing karena tidak > > merubah > > > > > > makna samasekali > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, "hadjar_wish" <hadjar@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Omongan Puin ini jelas bilang: ada bedanya. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dan omongan ini diperjelas dari kutipan yang lain.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, "hadingrh" <hadingrh@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bang puin bilang: > > > > > > > > "The important thing, thank God, is that these Yemeni > Qur'anic > > > > > > > > fragments do not differ from those found in museums and > > > libraries > > > > > > > > elsewhere, with the exception of details that do not > touch the > > > > > Qur'an > > > > > > > > itself, but are rather differences in the way words are > > spelled. > > > > > This > > > > > > > > phenomenon is well-known, even in the Qur'an published in > > > Cairo in > > > > > > > > which is written: > > > > > > > > Ibrhim next to Ibrhm, Quran next to Qrn, Simahum next to > > Simhum > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > John Burton: > > > > > > > > What we have today in our hands is the Mushaf of Muhammad. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jadi kesimpulannya, quran itu sudah solid.. tidak > terbantahkan > > > > bahwa > > > > > > > > itu benar2 kalam Ilahi.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jadi tidak ada ruang lagi untuk memperebatkan lagi > > > keotentikan al > > > > > > > quran.. > > > > > > > > bahwa quran jaman onta sama dengan jaman dimana orang dungu > > > > > sudah bisa > > > > > > > > ngepost email di kampung petar ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > berikut komentar dari para ilmuwan lainnya: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dr. Moore > > > > > > > > Dr. Moore was a former President of the Canadian > > Association of > > > > > > > > Anatomists, and of the American Association of Clinical > > > > > Anatomists. He > > > > > > > > was honoured by the Canadian Association of Anatomists > > with the > > > > > > > > prestigious J.C.B. Grant Award and in 1994 he received the > > > > Honoured > > > > > > > > Member Award of the American Association of Clinical > > Anatomists > > > > > "for > > > > > > > > outstanding contributions to the field of clinical anatomy." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "For the past three years, I have worked with the Embryology > > > > > Committee > > > > > > > > of King cAbdulaziz University in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, > helping > > > > > them to > > > > > > > > interpret the many statements in the Qur'an and Sunnah > > > > referring to > > > > > > > > human reproduction and prenatal development. At first I was > > > > > astonished > > > > > > > > by the accuracy of the statements that were recorded in > > the 7th > > > > > > > > century AD, before the science of embryology was > established. > > > > > Although > > > > > > > > I was aware of the glorious history of Muslim scientists in > > > > the 10th > > > > > > > > century AD, and some of their contributions to Medicine, I > > knew > > > > > > > > nothing about the religious facts and beliefs contained > in the > > > > > Qur'an > > > > > > > > and Sunnah."[2] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At a conference in Cairo he presented a research paper and > > > stated: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "It has been a great pleasure for me to help clarify > > statements > > > > > in the > > > > > > > > Qur'an about human development. It is clear to me that these > > > > > > > > statements must have come to Muhammad from God, or Allah, > > > > > because most > > > > > > > > of this knowledge was not discovered until many centuries > > later. > > > > > This > > > > > > > > proves to me that Muhammad must have been a messenger of > > God, or > > > > > > > > Allah." [1] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Professor Moore also stated that: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "...Because the staging of human embryos is complex, owing > > > to the > > > > > > > > continuous process of change during development, it is > > proposed > > > > > that a > > > > > > > > new system of classification could be developed using the > > terms > > > > > > > > mentioned in the Qur'an and Sunnah. The proposed system is > > > simple, > > > > > > > > comprehensive, and conforms with present embryological > > > knowledge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "The intensive studies of the Qur'an and Hadith in the > > last four > > > > > years > > > > > > > > have revealed a system of classifying human embryos that is > > > > amazing > > > > > > > > since it was recorded in the seventh century A.D... the > > > > descriptions > > > > > > > > in the Qur'an cannot be based on scientific knowledge in the > > > > seventh > > > > > > > > century..."[1] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > E. Marshall Johnson > > > > > > > > Professor and Chairman of the Department of Anatomy and > > > > > Developmental > > > > > > > > Biology, and Director of the Daniel Baugh Institute, Thomas > > > > > Jefferson > > > > > > > > University, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA. > > > > > > > > Author of over 200 publications. Former President of the > > > > Teratology > > > > > > > > Society among other accomplishments. Professor Johnson began > > > > to take > > > > > > > > an interest in the scientific signs in the Qur'an at the 7th > > > Saudi > > > > > > > > Medical Conference (1982), when a special committee was > > > formed to > > > > > > > > investigate scientific signs in the Qur'an and Hadith. At > > first, > > > > > > > > Professor Johnson refused to accept the existence of such > > > > verses in > > > > > > > > the Qur'an and Hadith. But after a dicussuion with Sheikh > > > > Zindani he > > > > > > > > took an interest and concentrated his research on the > internal > > > > > as well > > > > > > > > as external development of the fetus. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "...in summary, the Qur'an describes not only the > > development of > > > > > > > > external form, but emphasises also the internal stages, the > > > stages > > > > > > > > inside the embryo, of its creation and development, > > emphasising > > > > > major > > > > > > > > events recognised by contemporary science." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "As a scientist, I can only deal with things which I can > > > > > specifically > > > > > > > > see. I can understand embryology and developmental biology. > > > I can > > > > > > > > understand the words that are translated to me from the > > > > Qur'an. As I > > > > > > > > gave the example before, if I were to transpose myself > > into that > > > > > era, > > > > > > > > knowing what I do today and describing things, I could not > > > > describe > > > > > > > > the things that were described... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I see no evidence to refute the concept that this individual > > > > > Muhammad > > > > > > > > had to be developing this information from some place... so > > > I see > > > > > > > > nothing here in conflict with the concept that divine > > > > > intervention was > > > > > > > > involved in what he was able to write..." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Joe Leigh Simpson > > > > > > > > He is the President of the American Fertility Society. > He has > > > > > received > > > > > > > > many awards, including the Association of Professors of > > > > > Obstetrics and > > > > > > > > Gynaecology Public Recognition Award in 1992. Like many > > others, > > > > > > > > Professor Simpson was taken by surprise when he discovered > > > > that the > > > > > > > > Qur'an and Hadith contain verses related to his specialised > > > > field of > > > > > > > > study. When he met with Sheikh Abdul-Majeed A.Zindani, he > > > > > insisted on > > > > > > > > verifying the text presented to him from the Qur'an and > > Hadith. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "... these Hadiths (sayings of Muhammad) could not have been > > > > > obtained > > > > > > > > on the basis of the scientific knowledge that was available > > > at the > > > > > > > > time of the 'writer'... It follows that not only is there no > > > > > conflict > > > > > > > > between genetics and religion (Islam) but in fact religion > > > > > (Islam) may > > > > > > > > guide science by adding revelation to some of the > traditional > > > > > > > > scientific approaches... There exist statements in the > Qur'an > > > > shown > > > > > > > > centuries later to be valid which support knowledge in the > > > Qur'an > > > > > > > > having been derived from God." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gerald C. Goeringer > > > > > > > > Sheikh cAbdul-Majeed A.Zindani met with Professor > > Goeringer and > > > > > asked > > > > > > > > him whether in the history of embryology was there any > mention > > > > > of the > > > > > > > > different stages of embryonic development, or whether there > > > > existed > > > > > > > > any embryological texts at the time of the Prophet. Sheikh > > > Zindani > > > > > > > > also asked his opinion regarding the terms the Qur'an > uses to > > > > > describe > > > > > > > > the different phases of fetal development. After several > long > > > > > > > > discussions, he presented a study at the 8th Saudi Medical > > > > > Conference: > > > > > > > > "...In a relatively few ayahs (Qur'anic verses) is > contained a > > > > > rather > > > > > > > > comprehensive description of human development from the > > time of > > > > > > > > commingling of the gametes through organogenesis. No such > > > > > distinct and > > > > > > > > complete record of human development such as classification, > > > > > > > > terminology, and description existed previously. In most, if > > > > not all > > > > > > > > instances, this description antedates by many centuries the > > > > > recording > > > > > > > > of the various stages of human embryonic and fetal > development > > > > > > > > recorded in the traditional scientific literature." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe : [EMAIL PROTECTED] List owner : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Homepage : http://proletar.8m.com/ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! 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