Jadi, tidak sama.
Artinya Allah fiktif yang di al-Musahf itu tidak menepati janjinya.
--- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, "hadingrh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> artikel tsb jelas2 berhubungan dgn puin ... sedang puin ternyata
> diluar dugaannya jusfiq ..
> karena dia bilang sendiri yg kemudian dimuat di Atlantic Monthly:
>
> "The important thing, thank God, is that these Yemeni Qur'anic
> fragments do not differ from those found in museums and libraries
> elsewhere, with the exception of details that do not touch the Qur'an
> itself, but are rather differences in the way words are spelled. This
> phenomenon is well-known, even in the Qur'an published in Cairo in
> which is written:
>
> Ibrhim next to Ibrhm
> Quran next to Qrn
> Simahum next to Simhum
>
> In the oldest Yemeni Qur'anic fragments, for example, the phenomenon
> of not writing the vowel alif is rather common."
>
> some quotes:
> John Burton:
> What we have today in our hands is the Mushaf of Muhammad.
>
> jadi kesimpulannya, quran itu sudah solid.. tidak terbantahkan bahwa
> itu benar2 kalam Ilahi..
>
> jadi tidak ada ruang lagi untuk memperebatkan lagi keotentikan al
quran..
> bahwa quran jaman onta sama dengan jaman dimana orang dungu sudah bisa
> ngepost email di kampung petar ...
>
> --- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, "hadjar_wish" <hadjar@> wrote:
> >
> > Ni orang udah kewalahan.
> >
> > Saya tidak bicara tentang tulisan Puin.
> >
> > Dan tulisan Puin dibawah ini tetap mengatakan ada perbedaan antara
> > fragmen al-Mushaf Yemen itu dengan al-Mushaf yang lain.
> >
> > Dibalik itu ada beda antara al-Mushaf versi Kairo dan al-Mushaf versi
> > Magrib.
> >
> >
> > --- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, "hadingrh" <hadingrh@> wrote:
> > >
> > > maksud lu yg dibilang puin:
> > > "The important thing, thank God, is that these Yemeni Qur'anic
> > > fragments do not differ from those found in museums and libraries
> > > elsewhere, with the exception of details that do not touch the
Qur'an
> > > itself, but are rather differences in the way words are spelled.
This
> > > phenomenon is well-known, even in the Qur'an published in Cairo in
> > > which is written:
> > > Ibrhim next to Ibrhm, Quran next to Qrn, Simahum next to Simhum
> > >
> > > adalah omong kosong ?
> > >
> > > menarik skl ..
> > >
> > > some quotes:
> > >
> > > Robert Hoyland :
> > > the historical memory of the Muslim community is more robust
than some
> > > have claimed.
> > >
> > > John Burton:
> > > What we have today in our hands is the Mushaf of Muhammad.
> > >
> > > jadi tidak ada ruang lagi untuk memperebatkan lagi keotentikan al
> > quran..
> > > bahwa quran jaman onta sama dengan jaman dimana orang dungu
sudah bisa
> > > ngepost email di kampung petar ...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, "hadjar_wish" <hadjar@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, "hadingrh" <hadingrh@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, "hadjar_wish" <hadjar@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, "hadingrh" <hadingrh@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "So much for the controversy over the Sana fragments. It was
> > > actualy
> > > > > > > Toby Lester who was the one that tried to inflate this whole
> > issue
> > > > > > > into something it wasn't, and Dr Puin himself has denied
> all the
> > > > > > > findings Lester ascribes to him, apart from the spelling
> > > > differences.
> > > > > > > The media and western scholars just lapped it up without
> > > conscience,
> > > > > > > like they always do."
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ini adalah sekedar omongan doang...
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > hehehe ... memang sulit menjadi orang jujur
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > "hadingrh" nggak bisa bantgah bahwa omongandiatas cuma sekedar
omong
> > > > kosong.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > John Burton:
> > > > > > > What we have today in our hands is the Mushaf of Muhammad.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Biar ni orang kaing-kaing kayak anjing budug kena pentung,
> > kenyataan
> > > > > > akan tetap sama: Puin yang ahli huruf Arab kuno bilang bahwa
> > > tidak ada
> > > > > > bukti arkeologis yang menunjukkan bahwa al-Mushaf itu
usmani...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Nggak ada bukti.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yang ada cuma omongan yang tidak berbukti.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > Robert Hoyland :
> > > > > the historical memory of the Muslim community is more robust
> > than some
> > > > > have claimed.
> > > > > John Burton:
> > > > > What we have today in our hands is the Mushaf of Muhammad.
> > > > >
> > > > > jadi tidak ada ruang lagi untuk memperebatkan lagi
keotentikan al
> > > > quran..
> > > > > bahwa quran jaman onta sama dengan jaman dimana orang dungu
> > sudah bisa
> > > > > ngepost email di kampung petar ...
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Bukti al-Mushaf itu berisi wahyu Allah tidak ada.
> > > >
> > > > Bukti arkeoelogis bahwa al-Mushaf itu usmani juga tidak ada.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, "hadjar_wish" <hadjar@>
> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Reposting
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, "Jusfiq HADJAR"
<tikungan@>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Dr. Christoph Heger
> > > > > > > > Mar 13 1999, 10:00 am hide options
> > > > > > > > Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
> > > > > > > > From: Christoph.He...@ (Dr. Christoph Heger) - Find
> > > > > > > > messages by this author
> > > > > > > > Date: 1999/03/13
> > > > > > > > Subject: Gerd-R. Puin's position on the Yemeni Qur'ans
> > > > > > > > Reply to Author | Forward | Print | View Thread | Show
> > > original |
> > > > > > > > Report Abuse
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Greetings to all,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > In Toby Lester's article "What is the Koran?",
published
> > > > in the
> > > > > > > > January 1999 issue of The Atlantic Monthly, a German
> > > > > scholar, Dr.
> > > > > > > > Gerd-R. Puin, played a prominent role, as he is
> > > researching on
> > > > > > > > the old Yemeni Qur'an manuscripts. Since he felt
> that his
> > > > > > > > position concerning Qur'an scholarship could be
> > > misunderstood
> > > > > > > > from this article (and especially its various
erroneous
> > > Arabic
> > > > > > > > translations) he asked me to share with this list his
> > > > following
> > > > > > > > paper. He himself has no access to the Internet
and its
> > > > mailing
> > > > > > > > lists.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > > > Christoph Heger
> > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > _____________
> > > > > > > > ____
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Dr. Gerd-R.
> > > > > > > > Puin
> > > > > > > > FR 7.2 Orientalistik
> > > > > > > > Universitaet des Saarlandes
> > > > > > > > D-66111 Saarbruecken
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > January, l999
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > My position concerning my work on Yemeni Koran
> fragments:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I have been lucky - and still I am - to study many
> of the
> > > > oldest
> > > > > > > > Yemeni Koran manuscripts written in the most archaic
> > > "Hijazi"
> > > > > > > > style.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > In these I found variants and peculiarities which
> are not
> > > > > > > > recorded in the traditional Arabic books on qira'at
> > (variant
> > > > > > > > readings), or in the books on rasm al- masahif
> > > (orthography of
> > > > > > > > the Koran[s]) nor in those on the ti'dad al-ayat
> (counting
> > > > > > > > [systems] of verses).
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The Hijazi Korans show more variants than those
recorded
> > > > as the
> > > > > > > > Seven, Ten or Fourteen Readings, they show more
> > patterns of
> > > > > > > > "counting" - i.e. definitions of what is to be
> > > understood as a
> > > > > > > > verse - than the two dozen "schools" of counting would
> > > accept,
> > > > > > > > finally, the sequence of how the surahs were
arranged in
> > > early
> > > > > > > > times, was even more variegated than Ibn Nadim's
account
> > > > on the
> > > > > > > > sequence of surahs in the Korans of Ubayy or Ibn
Mas'ud
> > > > > suggests!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If I had not had access to Yamani Koran fragments
> > > preserved in
> > > > > > > > the Dar al-Makhtutat al-Yamaniyyah, San'a', I
could have
> > > > > possibly
> > > > > > > > found similar variants and peculiarities in Hijazi
> > > > fragments of
> > > > > > > > the Koran kept outside the Yemen in many libraries or
> > > museums,
> > > > > > > > e.g. in France, Great Britain, Germany, Italy, or
> Kuwait.
> > > > A most
> > > > > > > > spectacular (complete??) Hijazi Koran can be admired
> > in the
> > > > > > > > Islamic Museum of Cairo, only a few meters from the
> > > > entrance, in
> > > > > > > > a special vitrine to the right of the main route; this
> > > > treasure
> > > > > > > > is in Egypt since 1300 years or so, but I know of no
> > > > > > > > investigation, of no publication on its
peculiarities!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > There is, on the Muslims' side, no interest in textual
> > > > research
> > > > > > > > on the Koran since 900 years! Except from some western
> > > > semitists
> > > > > > > > who, from time to time, detect the etymology of one
> > Koranic
> > > > > > > > expression or another, most of the Arabists feel
> > > reluctant to
> > > > > > > > make up their minds on the genesis of the Koran. The
> > > > reason for
> > > > > > > > this kind of negligence is quite clear: Both the
> > Muslims and
> > > > > most
> > > > > > > > of the Arabists conceive any early deviation from the
> > > Koranic
> > > > > > > > scripture (as is represented by the Cairo print
edition)
> > > for a
> > > > > > > > lapsus calami, a mere scribal error.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Yet, if "scribal errors" happen to occur with the same
> > > words,
> > > > > > > > more often than twice, in the same manuscript or
even in
> > > > two or
> > > > > > > > three, then it is common (philological) sense to
> look out
> > > > for a
> > > > > > > > rationale!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This is my position: taking recurrent deviations
> from the
> > > > > > > > (printed) Koran for serious and not for
insufficiencies
> > > of the
> > > > > > > > early scribes!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The Koran, being the biggest Arabic text corpus extant
> > > > from late
> > > > > > > > antiquity, even in its actual printed edition bears
> > > witness of
> > > > > > > > all stages of orthographic reforms through which the
> text
> > > > passed
> > > > > > > > down to us. I feel confident that an insight into the
> > > > > development
> > > > > > > > of Koranic orthography will at least lead to a
different
> > > > notion
> > > > > > > > of the text in some cases, and to a better
understanding
> > > > in many
> > > > > > > > many more passages.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This will not, I'm afraid, bring about the
breakthrough
> > > in the
> > > > > > > > understanding of the Koran, but it might contribute to
> > > > show that
> > > > > > > > the Koran has a history, not only in the sense of
asbab
> > > > al-nuzul
> > > > > > > > ("causes for revelation"). The breakthrough might come
> > along
> > > > > with
> > > > > > > > the answer upon the question: What is the language
> of the
> > > > Koran?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Meanwhile, I stick to the manuscripts.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Dr. Gerd-R. Puin
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Jusfiq Hadjar gelar Sutan Maradjo Lelo
> > > > > > > > ======================================
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Orang Islam tipikal kudu sadar bahwa al-Mushaf itu TIDAK
> > > berbukti
> > > > > > > > berisi wahyu Allah
> > > > > > > > dan hadits itu mustahil ada yang sahih
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- End forwarded message ---
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- End forwarded message ---
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
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