Is any one know some who can translat Mentor file fo Cadence. Thanks
Narinder ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Daggett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 10:47 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] SCSI v IDE & IBM Deathstars (was Protel vs. DirectCD) What kind of card was it? You cant really blame the SCSI interface itself if you were using an cheap/unsupported device. Just as in any computer hardware... its all worthless without good drivers. Most OS's have innate and very good driver support for the standard and popular SCSI cards on the market (Adaptec families, etc). Getting a scanner to work with a $10 bundled controller card is another story. If you bought the bottom-of-the-line model from KIA and it broke down you wouldn't draw the conclusion "cars suck" would you. But there is no point in continuing this thread really... I'm sure everyone could chime in with their $0.02 about their experience with every drive model/make/interface since they ever had a computer. Again, the initial thread was that slow I/O and CPU overhead due to a particular storage interface COULD have been one of the reasons certain list members couldn't complete CD burns without babying their machines or at all. There are significant hardware improvements in SCSI disks other than just a faster spindle speed. The materials used in the platters are much more advanced to minimized bad sectors and the servos on the heads are faster and more precise for continuous sustained read/seek performance. Not to mention all of the on-board logic to implement better data prefetch and location prediction. Increased MTBF and 100% duty cycles. The disks are made to hit two points within the professional and enterprise community: known reliability and high performance. IDE disks on the other had while embracing many of the same technical upgrades through the years as SCSI technology are made to provide the consumer market with: large storage density and cheap price. Even as the quality of the disks themselves increase there will still always be the CPU hit due to the fact that IDE cannot multitask. To each his own... if you don't want to pay more for hard drives, then don't. If you are pleased with your IDE reliability through the years, then keep using them. If you don't think there could possibly be any improvement in SCSI disks than IDE to warrant the higher price tag then continue to think that way. But there are clear cut technological and application differences for each of the storage technologies to meet a particular customer/price/performance. -----Original Message----- From: Dennis Saputelli [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 7:33 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] SCSI v IDE & IBM Deathstars (was Protel vs. DirectCD) without disputing any of your assertions which may be entirely correct, my personal experience has been different every scsi drive i ever had died on me (4 or 5 of them, different eras and makers) i have never had an IDE die (knock on wood) also there is another layer to scsi which has given me trouble, the controller/driver layer which are more complex than IDE on various systems at various times with various controllers sometimes it was a hope and a prayer that it would boot on first try at one point i got a scsi scanner (HP) it wouldn't run on my scsi system (built by MICRON for $5K) it insisted on ONLY running on the crappy scsi controller they packaged with it after plugging that in i got it running, but there were still issues ... scsi did allow me to pile a bunch of drives in one box achieving more storage than i otherwise could have gotten, but that is all moot now for many (most?) of us Dennis Saputelli Matt Daggett wrote: > > Its very noticeable... especially if you have any kind of disk caching. Also > anytime you do anything I/O intensive you are taking a CPU hit which slows > performance. SCSI is intended for servers and high end workstations where as > IDE is more suited for the home PC user who is using AOL and Word. IDE hits > a great price for large cheap storage but its hardly a reliability or > performance solution. > > Also, I hope you have good luck with your new DEATHstar. To prove a point > about the unreliability of IDE drives you should look into the ongoing major > class action law suit against IBM over its Deskstar line of drives. Disks > failing at abnormally high rates and IBM turning the blind eye. Most users > have reported having a disk fail and then that replacement fail and the > replacement for that failing. Something like that would be unheard of in the > SCSI realm due to just plain higher quality drives. > > Another thing you should be aware of is that if you look in the IBM > documentation the deskstar is described as having "recommended power-on > hours" of 333 per month--about 11 hours a day. Drive reliability is > typically measured with the assumption that the drive is on 60 percent of the > time--somewhat higher than 46 percent of the time that 333 hours a month > would mean. On laptops, the standard duty is 40 percent, and on servers, > which usually use SCSI drives, it is 100 percent. So even in the > manufacturer's documentation they don't consider the drive to be used for > constant duty cycle. That's plain unacceptable for a work/development > environment. > > So to answer your question..."why would I pay 3 times as much for SCSI as I > would with ATA100"... higher throughput performance, half the access time, > 4-8X larger caches with prefetch algorithms, and 4-5X the MTBF. > > How much is your data and productivity worth to you? Is it worth saving that > extra $1-300 bucks? > > matt > > PS: Below is a link to a benchmark of a $200 Fujitsu disk in my system as > compared to all flavors of IDE. The results speak for themselves. > > http://www.mecards.com/SCSI_v_IDE_Benchmark.jpg > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tony Karavidas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 2:20 PM > To: 'Protel EDA Forum' > Subject: Re: [PEDA] Protel vs. DirectCD > > It may be fast, but it is useable or noticeable in a workstation?? > Probably not. I've been watching my harddisk like, and it rarely blinks. > That tell me my system doesn't spend much time chugging on the disk and > therefore why would I pay 3 times as much for SCSI as I would with > ATA100? I just bought an 80GB IBM deskstar drive for $90 to my door. > > I looked at the media transfer rate and the sustained rate of a IBM > Ultrastar Ultra160SCSI drive (at 10k RPM) and Deskstar 120 ATA100 drive > (at 7200 RPM) and the rate between the two isn't enough for me to > justify triple the cost. (And the fact you need a controller card that > is roughly another $100. > > Ultra160SCSI ATA100 > Media rate: 373 to 690 Mbits/s 592(max) Mbits/s > Sustained rate: 29 to 57 MB/s 23 to 48MB/s > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Matt Daggett [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 10:47 AM > > To: Protel EDA Forum > > Subject: Re: [PEDA] Protel vs. DirectCD > > > > > > You should invest in SCSI I/O if you have a lot of throughput > > problems to cause buffer underruns. I can defrag a partition > > while burning from the other without underrun issues and > > without burnproof. Most of the problems arise with all IDE > > based systems that use 100% CPU to burn CDs and MUST use > > burnproof or else you get a coaster. With a SCSI based > > system you'd see about a 1-2% CPU hit while burning. I have > > a 200Mhz Pentium Pro machine that I used to use to duplicate > > CDs that can copy a CD to five burners at 8X at once w/o any > > underrun issues. IDE couldn't even dream of that... > > > > I cant really stress enough how important I/O is to system > > performance independent of CPU and memory size. A single > > Ultra160 15K disk will outperform two ATA100 disks in a RIAD > > 0 stripe. Also when putting a SCSI disk under full > > throughput stress it doesn't use 100% of the CPU like all IDE > > based systems. Not to mention the reliability and increased > > cache sizes you get with most server-class SCSI disk. SCSI > > disks have no where near the high failure rates of IDE disks > > because you are buying a enterprise solution. Prices have > > really come down as well.. you can get a 73GB 10k RPM > > Ultra160 disk for about $320 now...that's really cheap! > > > > Anyhow, back to Protel... > > ************************************************************************ * Tracking #: 54020BF22366C24E97E55EF502C78A77D0AA09C8 * ************************************************************************ -- ___________________________________________________________________________ www.integratedcontrolsinc.com Integrated Controls, Inc. tel: 415-647-0480 2851 21st Street fax: 415-647-3003 San Francisco, CA 94110 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
