Golly gee, six munths ago i cuddent evn spel enjinner, now i are one. Tony,
I think someone wrote this for you, "Did you run out of your meds?? You really are nitpicking now." Please see below, JaMi ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Karavidas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'Protel EDA Forum'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 12:43 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Top Notch Talent for Troubleshooting. > Jami, you really are becoming quite offensive and at the same time > showing your ignorance. I looked at what you viewed and you're obviously > talking about Denzil Crasta. > Tony, Tony, Tony, Tony, please, please, please, please, just relax . . . My mere existance offends some people, but beyond that, I do not mean to be offensive, or more particularly, I specifically do not mean to offend anyone, and I apologize if I have. But please take a step back and try and put things into perspective. It is not a question about a particular individual or individuals and whether or not he is a nice guy or they are nice people. It is a question about one EDA Product which we all use and another EDA Product that we are all being "sold" in one way or another, and the problems with those two EDA Products and whether or not the company behind those products really knows what they are doing, from many different perspectives. From an EDA Software perspective. From a Technical perspective. From an Electrical Engineering perspective. From a Programming perspective, and most importantly, from a Printed Circuit Board Design perspective. Let's look at Altium and Protel 99 SE and Protel DXP for just a moment. If you look back in this forum over the last year at the "endearment thermometer" on Altium, and problems with Protel 99 SE , and the failure to deliver Protel DXP anywhere near on schedule, to monumental problems and design blunders when it first arrived, to the point where things appear to be possibly turning around and looking up, that thermometer fluctuates all over the place. I mean it has been Hot and Cold and Hot and Cold and Hot and Cold all over again all over the map. Please remember that just one month ago this very day, the whole Protel user community had revolted and was up in arms to the point that Altium was forced to abandon ATS and apologize to the Protel customer base. How soon we forget. Some of the primary questions in the forums in tha past year have dealt specifically with whether or not Altium was technically compent enough to deliver on DXP and now that it is here, whether or not they can fix the beast and make an honest product out of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, they are making real good progress in the past few weeks, and this latest service pack is really great, and blah, blah, blah, blah . . . I mean one day they can't write software and the next day they are the greatest. I mean look at the archive, look at your own posts. I mean I am not the only guy out here pointing out problems by a long shot. One day people are happy with Altium, and the next day they are not. How soon you guys forget the problems of last week, or last month, and are so easily placated and pacified like a puppy when they throw you a bone or two or some little scrap. This forum is a very moody bunch of people, but I would also say very malleable, in that it doesn't take very much to make you forget the problems of yesterday and make you a happy and faithful Altium supporter again. Ever since I called Altium in San Diego as a brand new customer, on a new brand new seat of Protel 99 SE less than a week old, with a system that crashed continually, and was told in essence to "go pound sand" by someone who I am sure is a very very nice person once you get past the fact that they were totally incompetent technically, and should not have been allowed to try and answer technical questions (a problem which Altium has since remedied), I have always had the question in the back of my mind of whether or not all the people at Altium are really qualified to do what they do, from a technical perspective, and also from the perspective of Engineering Design. Please note that there are some very good and very qualified Technical Support people at Altium, and I have dealt with some of them, but unfortunately, I do not believe that that level of competance and qualification is universal. Please note that this thread was started by me when I saw an employment ad a week or so ago for Technical Consultants at Altium in San Diego, and needless to say it hit a nerve, and yes I did post it here in a sarcastic sense, making an issue of the total lack of any real qualifications required for the position in terms of knowledge of Engineering Design Practice, or EDA Software Applications Experience, or even knowledge of Electronics in general. I mean duh! What's a Printed Circuit Board? What's a Schematic? I mean forgive me for being sarcastic, truely, I am sorry, but I need to be able to talk to someone in Tech Support who can understand my questions, and can understand Electronic Design, and can understand what I am using Protel for and what I am trying to do with it, so that he can understand why the problem is a problem, and more importantly he can understand what needs to be done to fix the problem. So nobody responded to my original thread, but we had a hell of a related conversation in a parallel post here in the last couple of days concerning the the qualifications of "two year wonders" and whether or not the people at Altium (and elsewhere) really are qualified, from the perspective of Electronic Design Experience, to be making "rules" about what a schematic diagram should or should not be allowed to contain. That is not to say that there is no one at Altium that has this type of experience, but is does raise the question of whether or not there are enough people at Altium with this type of experience. What good does it do to have one person at the top of a company who understands Engineering Design when he is obviously too busy running the company to direct all of the individual detailed efforts going into his products. For years and years and years, virtually everyone in our industry (and I am sure that includes almost everyone in this forum), has been complaining that all of the software is written by people who do not know the first thing about Electronics or Electronic Design. This is a recognized industry wide problem, and it didn't begin with me. With this "problem" fresh in my mind, I was cleaning up my email when I came across my earlier post and a thought struck me (which happens occasionally) and I wondered just what kind of qualifications Altium required of its programmers, which prompted me to repost my original post with the new question, which had a reply which lead me to the website at Altium, and to the quote that I quoted. Well, needless to say, just as expected, Altium doesn't require much. This has absolutely nothing to do with any specific individual or group of individuals. This has to do simply with the fact that Altium does not appear to require any real relevant understanding of Electronic Design, which is true to form for the industry, but which nonehte less is a problem in the industry. While I am sure that many will say that Altium will train these people what they need to know about Electronic Design, unfortunately, herein lies the problem, for they will be tought the Gospel according to Altium, and the primary question here (and also a recent topic here in the forum) is the validity of that Gospel according to Altium. > Just because he may not know DXP, or know PCB layout or SCH capture, > doesn't me he isn't qualified to write code for those things. He has a > boss, and his boss can hand him a spec saying "We want this feature xxx, > do it this way" If he write his code and it performs to the spec, then > he is a good programmer. If his output was accurate to the spec, but for > some reason WE don't like what the app does, then the spec is bad and > has nothing to do with this entry level programmer. > > The guy has two degrees, and while he is probably fairly inexperienced, > he probably writes pretty good code because he isn't old and lazy yet. I > would bet he takes the time to document his work properly because he is > trying to make a good impression. > > Until you know of his particular skills, you should shut up. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: JaMi Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 12:10 PM > > To: Protel EDA Forum > > Cc: JaMi Smith > > Subject: Re: [PEDA] Top Notch Talent for Troubleshooting. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > That explains it all . . . > > > > The following paragraph was taken off of the website from one > > of the "Graduate Stories" under "Graduate Recruitment": > > > > "My role at Altium is Software Engineer, which entails > > developing new features for Altium's products. When I first > > started, I spent a week becoming familiar with the software > > and after that began developing straight away. My knowledge > > of the EDA industry was very limited at first, however each > > new project has provided me with a new challenge as well as a > > good opportunity to learn more." > > > > No comment required, as it speaks for itself. > > > > Thanks again > > > > JaMi > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "John Williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 11:23 AM > > Subject: Re: [PEDA] Top Notch Talent for Troubleshooting. > > > > > > > Here is one: > > > > > > http://www.altium.com/careers/co_aust_se.htm > > > > > > John Williams > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "JaMi Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Cc: "JaMi Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 11:01 AM > > > Subject: Re: [PEDA] Top Notch Talent for Troubleshooting. > > > > > > > > > ... > > > > The next time one of you guys or gals down under spot Altium > > > > advertizing > > > for > > > > any Programmers in the local papers (or where ever they advertize > > > > such things down under), post us a link or scan in the > > copy, so that > > > > we all > > can > > > > see. > > > ... > > > > > > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
