> Também são, mas posso opinar menos sobre esses (ou
> quase nada), o que esse pessoal aqui tá precisando é
> conhecer um pouco mais sobre outras formas de
> pensamento, que devem convergir em alguns pontos,
> não
> em todos. E talvez seja importante uma visão menos
> instrumentalista.
>
> Abraços, e vão ler outra coisa além de "man pages"
> (vê
> se não levam isso ao pé da letra).
>
> --- paduamelo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escreveu:
>
> > Genial e denso mesmo é isso aqui, escrito mais de
> > 150 anos antes de qualquer debate sobre trabalho
> > imaterial, sobre conhecimento como mercadoria,
> sobre
> > ciência como força produtiva (Habermas). sobre
> > capitalismo informacional (e suas contradições
> > insolúveis!)...
> >
> > The exchange of living labour for objectified
> labour
> > i.e. the positing of social labour in the form
> of
> > the contradiction of capital and wage labour is
> > the ultimate development of the value-relation and
> > of production resting on value. Its presupposition
> > is and remains the mass of direct labour time,
> > the quantity of labour employed, as the
> determinant
> > factor in the production of wealth. But to the
> > degree that large industry develops, the creation
> of
> > real wealth comes to depend less on labour time
> and
> > on the amount of labour employed than on the power
> > of the agencies set in motion during labour time,
> > whose powerful effectiveness is itself in turn
> > out of all proportion to the direct labour time
> > spent on their production, but depends rather on
> the
> > general state of science and on the progress of
> > technology, or the application of this science to
> > production. (The development of this science,
> > especially natural science, and all others with
> the
> > latter, is itself in turn related to the
> development
> > of material production.) Agriculture, e.g.,
> becomes
> > merely the application of the science of material
> > metabolism, its regulation for the greatest
> > advantage of the entire body of society. Real
> wealth
> > manifests itself, rather and large industry
> > reveals this in the monstrous disproportion
> > between the labour time applied, and its product,
> as
> > well as in the qualitative imbalance between
> labour,
> > reduced to a pure abstraction, and the power of
> the
> > production process it superintends. Labour no
> longer
> > appears so much to be included within the
> production
> > process; rather, the human being comes to relate
> > more as watchman and regulator to the production
> > process itself. (What holds for machinery holds
> > likewise for the combination of human activities
> and
> > the development of human intercourse.) No longer
> > does the worker insert a modified natural thing
> > [Naturgegenstand] as middle link between the
> object
> > [Objekt] and himself; rather, he inserts the
> process
> > of nature, transformed into an industrial process,
> > as a means between himself and inorganic nature,
> > mastering it. He steps to the side of the
> production
> > process instead of being its chief actor. In this
> > transformation, it is neither the direct human
> > labour he himself performs, nor the time during
> > which he works, but rather the appropriation of
> his
> > own general productive power, his understanding of
> > nature and his mastery over it by virtue of his
> > presence as a social body it is, in a word, the
> > development of the social individual which appears
> > as the great foundation-stone of production and of
> > wealth. The theft of alien labour time, on which
> the
> > present wealth is based, appears a miserable
> > foundation in face of this new one, created by
> > large-scale industry itself. As soon as labour in
> > the direct form has ceased to be the great
> > well-spring of wealth, labour time ceases and must
> > cease to be its measure, and hence exchange value
> > [must cease to be the measure] of use value. The
> > surplus labour of the mass has ceased to be the
> > condition for the development of general wealth,
> > just as the non-labour of the few, for the
> > development of the general powers of the human
> head.
> > With that, production based on exchange value
> breaks
> > down, and the direct, material production process
> is
> > stripped of the form of penury and antithesis.
> The
> > free development of individualities, and hence not
> > the reduction of necessary labour time so as to
> > posit surplus labour, but rather the general
> > reduction of the necessary labour of society to a
> > minimum, which then corresponds to the artistic,
> > scientific etc. development of the individuals in
> > the time set free, and with the means created, for
> > all of them. Capital itself is the moving
> > contradiction, [in] that it presses to reduce
> labour
> > time to a minimum, while it posits labour time, on
> > the other side, as sole measure and source of
> > wealth. Hence it diminishes labour time in the
> > necessary form so as to increase it in the
> > superfluous form; hence posits the superfluous in
> > growing measure as a condition question of life
> or
> > death for the necessary. On the one side, then,
> it
> > calls to life all the powers of science and of
> > nature, as of social combination and of social
> > intercourse, in order to make the creation of
> wealth
> > independent (relatively) of the labour time
> employed
> > on it. On the other side, it wants to use labour
> > time as the measuring rod for the giant social
> > forces thereby created, and to confine them within
> > the limits required to maintain the already
> created
> > value as value. Forces of production and social
> > relations two different sides of the development
> > of the social individual appear to capital as
> mere
> > means, and are merely means for it to produce on
> its
> > limited foundation. In fact, however, they are the
> > material conditions to blow this foundation
> > sky-high. Truly wealthy a nation, when the
> working
> > day is 6 rather than 12 hours. Wealth is not
> command
> > over surplus labour time (real wealth), but
> > rather, disposable time outside that needed in
> > direct production, for every individual and the
> > whole society. (The Source and Remedy etc. 1821,
> p.
> > 6.)
> >
> > Nature builds no machines, no locomotives,
> railways,
> > electric telegraphs, self-acting mules etc. These
> > are products of human industry; natural material
> > transformed into organs of the human will over
> > nature, or of human participation in nature. They
> > are organs of the human brain, created by the
> human
> > hand; the power of knowledge, objectified. The
> > development of fixed capital indicates to what
> > degree general social knowledge has become a
> direct
> > force of production, and to what degree, hence,
> the
> > conditions of the process of social life itself
> have
> > come under the control of the general intellect
> and
> > been transformed in accordance with it. To what
> > degree the powers of social production have been
> > produced, not only in the form of knowledge, but
> > also as immediate organs of social practice, of
> the
> > real life process.
> >
> > (Karl Marx, Grundrisse der Kritik der Politischen
> > Ökonomie, 1857-1861)
> >
> >
> >
> > > Velho, desculpe mas denso é Heidegger,
> Nietzsche,
> > > Merlau-Ponty, Michel Foucalt. Hélio Oiticia
> > (Artista
> > > Plástico), Drummond, Fernando Pessoa (todos os
> > > heterônimos que conheço), Sartre (em posição
> > > estratégica), Machado de Assis (por último para
> > ficar
> > > ecoando: DE ASSIS, DE ASSIs, DE ASSis, DE
> > ASsis)... Li
> > > a introdução e parte do cap. V e acho ótimas as
> > > conexões, mas não denso.
> > >
> > > Isso é denso:
> > >
> > > O mundo é grande
> > >
> > > O mundo é grande e cabe
> > > nesta janela sobre o mar.
> > > O mar é grande e cabe
> > > na cama e no colchão de amar.
> > > O amor é grande e cabe
> > > no breve espaço de beijar.
> > >
> > > (Carlos Drummond de Andrade in Amar se Aprende
> > > Amando)
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Do Jornal de Poesia
> > >
> >
> http://www.secrel.com.br/jpoesia/drumm3.html#omundo
> > >
> > > Humano cadê você humano...
> > >
> > > Sérgio Amadeu é um cara legal.
> > >
> > > P.S.: ...
> > >
> > > --- Aurélio A. Heckert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > escreveu:
> > >
> > > > Rapaz...
> > > > Isso é ****Denso****!!!
> > > >
> > > > Sergio Amadeu é gênio.
> > > >
> > > > Em 07/12/05, Vicente
> > Aguiar<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > escreveu:
> > > > > Rapaz...
> > > > >
> > > > > Para quem está pesquisando sobre Software
> > Livre ou
> > > > tem interesse no
> > > > > debate, esta tese de Doutotado da USP (de um
> > cara
> > > > que "ninguém"
> > > > > conhece) acobou de sair do forno, vejam:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
http://twiki.softwarelivre.org/bin/view/TeseSA/WebHome
> > > > >
> > > > > Boa Leitura!!!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Vicente Aguiar :-)
> > > > >
> > > > > BanSol - Associação de Fomento À Economia
> > > > Solidária.
> > > > > www.bansol.ufba.br [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > Tel: (71) 3263 7369
> > > > > =================================
> > > > > Nós usamos Software Livre!!!
> > > > > www.EcoSol.SoftwareLivre.org
> > > > > Sistema Operacional: Debian Gnu/Linux 3.1
> > > > > http://www.debian.org.br
> > > > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > > > > PSL-BA mailing list
> > > > > PSL-BA@listas.im.ufba.br
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
https://listas.im.ufba.br/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/psl-ba
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
-===================================================-
> > > > . . Aurélio A. Heckert [
> > GNU/Linux ]
> > > > / \ http://www.aurium.cjb.net
> > > > ((__-^^-,-^^-__))
> > > > `-_---" "---_-´ Web Colaborativa:
> > > > `--|o` ´o|--´ http://www.TWiki.org
> > > > \ ' / Projeto Software Livre -
> > Bahia:
> > > > ): :(
> > http://psl-ba.softwarelivre.org
> > > > (o_o) GNOSIS - Software Livre:
> > > > "-" http://www.gnosislivre.org
> > > >
> > -------------------------------------------------
> > > > GNU/Linux User #312507
> > http://counter.li.org
> > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> -
> > - -
> > > > ( ( ( http://www.midiaindependente.org )
> )
> > )
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
-===================================================-
> > > >
> > > > "Se conhecimento é poder, que país governado
> > > > por industriais dará a verdadeira educação?
> > > > Cuidado com o feedback da miséria!" Tet
> Ramon
> > > > "Eu temo pela minha espécie quando penso que
> > > > Deus é justo." Thomas Jefferson
> > > >
> _______________________________________________
> > > > PSL-BA mailing list
> > > > PSL-BA@listas.im.ufba.br
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
https://listas.im.ufba.br/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/psl-ba
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Felipe...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
_______________________________________________________
> > > Yahoo! doce lar. Faça do Yahoo! sua homepage.
> > > http://br.yahoo.com/homepageset.html
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > PSL-BA mailing list
> > > PSL-BA@listas.im.ufba.br
> > >
> >
>
https://listas.im.ufba.br/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/psl-ba
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > PSL-BA mailing list
> > PSL-BA@listas.im.ufba.br
> >
>
https://listas.im.ufba.br/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/psl-ba
> >
>
>
> Felipe...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
_______________________________________________________
>
> Yahoo! doce lar. Faça do Yahoo! sua homepage.
> http://br.yahoo.com/homepageset.html
>
>
Felipe...
_______________________________________________________
Yahoo! doce lar. Faça do Yahoo! sua homepage.
http://br.yahoo.com/homepageset.html
_______________________________________________
PSL-BA mailing list
PSL-BA@listas.im.ufba.br
https://listas.im.ufba.br/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/psl-ba
