Hey Slau, That's the reason why I you the Avid Ensonic MC transport plus a preSonus central station which has the built-in talk back as well. That covers all of the issues you mentioned above. Of course, the I/O that one chooses is completely an open field a personal choice.
Take care, Sean Sent from my iPhone So forgive my brevity! On Nov 1, 2015, at 8:41 PM, Slau Halatyn <slauhala...@gmail.com> wrote: Hi Katie, The time I spent at AES with the S3 is hardly enough to make any conclusive statement. I'd say the fact that Sean and perhaps a few others have used it is more of a testament to its usability. BTW, yes, it does have the fader flip mode as do all of the Avid surfaces. If you're mixing in surround, you'd definitely need another interface to handle the multi-channel output. Further, you'd need some sort of monitor controller to handle the routing of those six channels to the speakers and the ability to switch between stereo and surround. The C|24 has that built in. As far as preamps and monitor switchers/controllers, you could spend anywhere from a thousand dollars to many thousands, depending on your particular needs and the available brands, etc. It's entirely possible that the S3 has at least some facility for surround panning but I haven't looked into that at all. The Dock probably only works with the Mac in so far as it likely has an Ethernet connection to show up as an Ethernet controller in the preferences window. Beyond that, its functionality in that regard would probably be limited to transport and scrub/shuttle behavior, perhaps some soft key function. I think it's truly meant for use with an iPad to take advantage of its full potential. It does make me just a tiny bit wary of the longevity of the iPad platform. That said, I'm certain that any supported iPad model will likely outlive the Dock itself and, most likely, whatever system is running Pro Tools. At best, any surface is only going to have a lifespan of, say, 10 to 15 years. Probably most iPads will live that long if they're dedicated to the Pro Tools Dock. By that time, one would probably move onto whatever the new surface is. Keep in mind that the Control|24 had a pretty long run (some 15 years) and still technically works just fine with Pro Tools 10. blind users were essentially forced to keep using their Control|24s because, when the C\24 was introduced, the current version of Pro Tools at that time was not accessible. It would be at least another few years before that would happen and a couple more than that before it became a viable option for prime-time use. Now that we're at that point, the purchase of a control surface becomes a major decision but needs to also be considered in the context of the cost of doing business. It's not much different than buying a van for your business and either running it into the ground or selling it at some point and buying a new one. Hey, there's always the option to lease as well, if you're into that kind of thing. Getting back to the surround question, whether you're going with c|24 or S3, you'll still need an interface to output 6 channels (or whatever format) of audio. It's going to be expensive. If you're only doing basic stereo and recording less than 5 tracks at a time, the S3 alone will suffice. It's that surround issue that makes for a costly solution. Probably the hardest thing to do is to define, very specifically, exactly what you think you'll need and decide which solution will work best for your situation. Wherever possible, I'll try to answer any questions I think I might have some answers for but a lot of the S3 aspect is still very new to me. I'll probably download the manual to start learning a bit more for future reference. Best, Slau > On Nov 1, 2015, at 10:03 PM, Katie Zodrow <kzodrow...@att.net> wrote: > > Hey Slau its Katie. > > Thanks for comparing both the S3 and C24 control surfaces. Now, I guess I’m > not really sure which way to go either. It sounds like the C24 has everything > already built in like for mic preamps, the monitor section so I can mix in > 5.1 surround and the talk back mic and listen back features. If I get the new > S3, I’d probably have to purchase additional mic preamps or other gear for > mixing in surround. Is that right? Just wondering if that would cost more > compared to if I wanted to get the C24 or not? > > Last week, I read some posts on the Avid community forums about control > surfaces. A lot of people that posted in 2012 and even last year agreed that > the C24 probably might be discontinued in a few years. Some people thought > this control surface was already discontinued because stores like Guitar > Center had stopped selling it. > > Does the S3 also have fader flip mode if I need to use it for adjusting plug > in parameters? Was navigating the S3 for you more difficult than the C24? The > dock sounds pretty cool. Does the new dock work only with the iPad or can you > use it with a Mac too? Thanks. > > If you don’t mind, I can send your post comparing both control surfaces, and > the other info I got from Sean to Rick later today or Monday. > Thanks again for your help. > Katie >> On Nov 1, 2015, at 1:26 PM, Slau Halatyn <slauhala...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Hi Vinny, >> >> I don't remember where you got your Control|24. Sweetwater? At any rate, if >> you upgrade through them, you'll have to provide that serial number and, >> whereas it used to be that Avid provided an RA# with a prepaid shipping >> label (although good luck finding an appropriate shipping box), they no >> longer provide for shipping. technically, you're supposed to ship the unit >> back to California. In reality, however, the Avid rep at Sweetwater said to >> either donate the unit or recycle it. Frankly, I couldn't find anyone >> locally who wanted it so I recycled at Best Buy and sent a copy of the >> receipt. >> >> Coming from the Control|24, it wasn't a tough call a year ago but, with the >> S3 and new Dock, it's a toss up. >> >> Best, >> >> Slau >> >>> On Nov 1, 2015, at 4:08 PM, Vinny Pedulla <vinnypedu...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Slau, >>> I really appreciate the thorough comparison you presented to us… >>> A lot to consider, but at least it looks promising for us in the way of >>> control surfaces. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Vinny >>> Email: vinnypedu...@gmail.com >>> >>>> On Nov 1, 2015, at 2:54 PM, Slau Halatyn <slauhala...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> while visiting with some folks at the Avid booths at AES, I had a chance >>>> to check out the new Pro Tools Dock alongside the S3 surface. Clearly, the >>>> Dock is meant as a companion to the S3 in its form factor and >>>> functionality. I've never seen the Artist surfaces in person so I can't >>>> say whether they share anything ergonomically so this is just from the >>>> perspective of the S series. >>>> >>>> Clearly, the S series is the future as far as surfaces go in the Pro Tools >>>> family of products. Surely, the Artist series is as well but only at a >>>> lower price point. I got to spend some time with one of the designers and >>>> he walked me through its features and workflow. To me, it seems to be as >>>> equally accessible as the C|24 with some key differences. The introduction >>>> of the Dock mitigates a couple of those differences but introduces a few >>>> others. >>>> >>>> To start, the S3 is technically an interface with 4 inputs and 4 outputs. >>>> For very basic recording, it's all you need to set up a Pro Tools system >>>> with a surface. What it lacks, however, is a standard transport section >>>> and scrub wheel. The transport isn't essential but it sometimes comes in >>>> extremely handy as a time-saver and an absolute determinant of transport >>>> status. The new Dock does include the standard transport controls along >>>> with a proper scrub wheel with truly smooth operation. >>>> >>>> The C|24 has 24 faders as opposed to the S3's 16 faders. That's not a >>>> major difference. The S3 has no mic preamps where the C|24 has 16 preamps >>>> plus a 16-channel submixer. The C|24 also has a comprehensive monitoring >>>> and talkback system which the S3 does not have. The C|24 is more of a >>>> self-contained solution for a studio environment. While the S3 is >>>> certainly meant for any control room, it assumes that one has other gear >>>> to supplement its role as purely a surface with perhaps the capability of >>>> up to 4 inputs and outputs and a basic stereo headphone send. If you're >>>> using multiple pairs of monitors or a surround system, you'd need a >>>> dedicated switcher and a separate talkback system or perhaps one of the >>>> offerings from companies like Dangerous that have all of that >>>> functionality. >>>> >>>> Regarding the Dock, it's meant to utilize one of several iPad models. the >>>> iPad sits in a cradle that has buttons oriented to complement some of the >>>> on-screen areas of the Pro Tools Control app running on the iPad. I >>>> personally haven't tried the Control app yet so I can't comment on its >>>> operation and accessibility but it's clearly deeply integrated into the >>>> Dock's workflow. I'd imagine that it would be possible to use the Dock's >>>> transport and scrub wheel functions without the iPad because those >>>> features don't depend on any application. I'm sure that there are aspects >>>> of the Dock's behavior that would certainly require the presence of an >>>> iPad but I'm not sure precisely what those features and workflows are at >>>> this point. The Dock doesn't ship until early next year. >>>> >>>> Looking at the two systems (the C|24 and the S3 and Dock combination), I'd >>>> say they're comparable for the most part for most users. The C|24 has some >>>> advantages for a studio but its life cycle is clearly going to end in the >>>> next few years. It'll be supported for a couple of years beyond that but >>>> the S3 is a new product and will most definitely outlive the C|24 by a >>>> wide margin. I already have a c|24 because I upgraded from its >>>> predecessor, the Control|24. the familiarity made it an obvious choice. In >>>> addition, at the time of my upgrade, there was no S3. If you look at the >>>> price of the two families, the C|24 is currently advertised at $10,000 >>>> through Sweetwater. I know Chuck recently posted a quote from Alto Music >>>> for $5,800 for a C|24 with no trade-in required. That's normally the >>>> trade-in price so I'm not sure how Alto is getting away with no trade-in. >>>> At the very least, one would have to supply a serial number for that kind >>>> of upgrade and perhaps the return shipping would not necessarily be >>>> required but, at any rate, a new user would be looking at anywhere from >>>> around $6,000 to, more likely, $10,000.The S3 sells for $5,000 and the >>>> Dock will sell for $1,200 not including an iPad. If you add the cost of an >>>> iPad, you're looking at close to $7,000. If you start getting into >>>> preamps, master section, monitor switching, etc. one could easily spend as >>>> much or probably more when going the S3 route. The thing is, one has to >>>> consider the lifespan and future of the product line. >>>> >>>> My gut feeling is that any Control|24 user could probably upgrade to the >>>> C|24 without much downtime, without too much rearranging of patch bays and >>>> workflow confusion. For a new user or someone who has never used a >>>> control|24, the S3 seems like the way to go. >>>> >>>> Those are my impressions based on what I've seen, what I know and the >>>> feeling I get. >>>> >>>> Slau >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "Pro Tools Accessibility" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to ptaccess+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Pro Tools Accessibility" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to ptaccess+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Pro Tools Accessibility" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to ptaccess+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Pro Tools Accessibility" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to ptaccess+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Pro Tools Accessibility" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ptaccess+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Pro Tools Accessibility" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ptaccess+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
