Slau wrote: I believe that the only person truly qualified to give the fullest answer to this question is Chi Kim. Chi's primary DAW for years has been Logic. However, Chi has also been a Windows user and is familiar with the offerings on that side of the fence. More important, he's quite well versed in Pro Tools. I'd say he's perhaps equally knowledgeable on both platforms.
Phil replied: possibly although don't think Chi has dug into Samplitude on Windows and not sure how much of a Reaper user he is either. There in lies the problem for any of us who work in multiple DAW's. _____ From: ptaccess@googlegroups.com [mailto:ptaccess@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Slau Halatyn Sent: 06 February 2018 15:20 To: PTAccess List Subject: Re: Protools vs Logic Pro, accessibility and productivity Hi Victor, I believe that the only person truly qualified to give the fullest answer to this question is Chi Kim. Chi's primary DAW for years has been Logic. However, Chi has also been a Windows user and is familiar with the offerings on that side of the fence. More important, he's quite well versed in Pro Tools. I'd say he's perhaps equally knowledgeable on both platforms. while I consider myself an experienced Pro Tools user, I'm really not at all acquainted with Logic. Despite owning it and poking around in it, I have virtually no true hands-on experience using it in any meaningful way. That said, I've observed others and how they get around the interface and I base my comments on this experience. Recent versions of Pro Tools, especially the latest, are very accessible right out of the box. The two main windows, the Mix and Edit windows, are simple and offer channel-strip type groupings of controls aside from the toolbar in the Edit window, which is just laid out in a horizontal line of clusters. The Mix and Edit windows share a table of track list and groups list and the Edit window can also display a clips list. That is essentially the entirety of the interface with only two levels of "interaction as far as VoiceOver is concerned. In fact, apart from the insert and sends sub groups in each channel strip, I can't think of an instance where one has to drill down more than one level to get to anything in any window in Pro Tools. To me, it seems like Logic requires more jumping around and drilling of interactions to accomplish similar tasks. What Flo Tools has done is dramatically increase efficiency by reporting things like how many tracks are showing, how many are hidden, what's muted soloed or record-enabled, etc. what the current start, end and length values are, etc. Largely, the kind of information that Windows users were used to getting in Sonar, for example. Regarding Flo Tools, this is just barely scratching the surface of what it can now do for Pro Tools. To me, the current state of access in Pro Tools along with Flo Tools, is unparalleled. Of course, we all know that other DAWs are quite useable and Logic offers a decent degree of access. However, it's not yet at the level of Pro Tools with Flo Tools. Ah, one more qualification: in my opinion, the greatest access to Pro Tools, even with Flo Tools, is gained by the use of a control surface. This is not to say that one cannot access everything without a surface but the degree to which and speed with which one can access things is simply hands down faster with a surface and I would venture to say that's true for a blind user using any workstation out there. So, let's say that factor is a given but I think it's worth mentioning. If anybody can help get Logic to a higher level of accessibility, it'll be Chi. The issues that Logic has are things like windows not being titled in ways that are conducive to scripting the UI. Image recognition helps but is still a bit quirky and not 100% reliable. My sighted colleagues who use both Logic and Pro Tools virtually all agree that they like Logic for composition and its sounds and Pro Tools for its editing and mixing environment. With the advent of Komplete Kontrol and the MIDI editing enhancements built into Pro Tools, to me, I don't feel any lack of MIDI or virtual instrument capabilities. It's clear that some other DAWs have more advanced or flexible MIDI implementation but that's the kind of thing that people who are MIDI and VI-based composers care most about. I use plenty of MIDI and virtual instruments and the degree to which I can edit MIDI now, even on the fly, is way more than I even need. That said, a person trying to compose and mix EDM, and I mean a blind user here, would have a challenge on their hands when it comes to certain aspects of that type of production. That has more to do with the interfaces of the virtual instruments, however, and that's the area where every DAW poses a challenge for blind users. I've been openly accused of being both a Mac and Pro Tools snob. This mostly comes from people who are equally snobbish about Windows and other DAWs while proclaiming that it's horses for courses and, at the end of the day, it's just WAV files. I say it's about the quality of getting from point A to point B. To me, the quality of the experience has always been better on a Mac and, therefore, Pro Tools. Even though Logic eventually started becoming accessible, Pro Tools is still the gold standard on the Mac side of things. Given that my sighted colleagues are overwhelmingly Mac and Pro Tools based, I'm comfortable in this camp and find it getting better all the time. All that said, some people just simply feel better sticking to other environments and what they're used to and you can't blame a person for that. One last thing I'll say about a weakness versus strength, there is no current tutorial focused on the use of Pro Tools from a blindness perspective. I've always said that the way to learn Pro Tools is by reading the manual and I still believe that's true. However, I do recognize the value of learning material specifically geared toward a specialized aspect of using the DAW. Groups like WhatsApp and this email list have helped people wrap their heads around some concepts but there are so many users who dive in, expecting they can wing it without reading the manual. Those users get out of Pro Tools exactly what they put into learning it. A lot of us are happy to help but, as we all would agree, it's a lot easier to help those who help themselves. All that said, I might just start to offer one-on-one Pro Tools training. As long as I'm spending time on it, why not get paid, eh? LOL Seriously, I'd rather be working on music, to be honest :) Sorry for the long missive. I know Chi's newborn baby daughter is taking up a lot of his time but maybe he'll see this and chime in as well. Cheers, Slau On Feb 6, 2018, at 1:25 AM, Victor Tsaran <vtsa...@gmail.com> wrote: Hello all! Please please no flame wars! I would really like to hear from expert users who used both Logic and Protools with VoiceOver on Mac OS. To be more precise, I mean the Flotools/Protools combination vs Flogic/Logic one. After reading various release notes on Flotools.org, I came to conclusion that protools combined with Flotools offers an unparalleled productivity and efficiency with VoiceOver compared to that of Logic. Of course, you can deal with the quirks of the latter, but judging from the feature set of Flotools, querying, editing and manipulating the audio content in Protools is much faster than in Logic Pro. Yes, I understand the difference between two DAWs. The purpose of this message is to affirm my conclusions, especially from users who are experts in using both. Would you agree with my observations above? Are there any remaining weak points in Protools as far as accessibility is concerned? Thanks for any pointers, tutorials, podcasts, etc. Vic -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Pro Tools Accessibility" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ptaccess+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Pro Tools Accessibility" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ptaccess+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Pro Tools Accessibility" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ptaccess+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
