Will get the browser matrix to you today or if held back then for tomorrow. Sorry for the delay!
cam On 05/04/2011, at 2:56 PM, mike amundsen wrote: > cam: > > Thanks for the feedback. I see the usage scenario you have in mind for > the "GET-style" DELETEs. > > Other comments make sense to me, too. > > Thanks. > > BTW - any chance you can send me the browser matrix for different > response-types soon? > > mca > http://amundsen.com/blog/ > http://twitter.com@mamund > http://mamund.com/foaf.rdf#me > > > #RESTFest 2010 > http://rest-fest.googlecode.com > > > > > On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 09:31, Cameron Heavon-Jones <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> On 05/04/2011, at 6:01 AM, mike amundsen wrote: >> >>> Cam: >>> >>> my comments are inline... >>> >>> On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 13:03, Cameron Heavon-Jones <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>>> Feedback on: Supporting PUT and DELETE with HTML FORMS @ 2011-04-04 >>>> >>>> 1.2. Assumptions >>>> >>>> I think that DELETE requires the same support as PUT and POST. The >>>> requirement for this was posted to public-html-comments: >>>> >>>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-comments/2011Apr/0020.html >>>> >>>> I would suggest that DELETE uses the same URI encoding rules as for GET by >>>> default, with the option of also being allowed to be encoded in the same >>>> enctypes as for PUT and POST. This will allow for a DELETE request using >>>> query parameters to be constructed through a form or, for the other >>>> enctypes, for the DELETE request to be embedded with configurable >>>> attributes. >>>> >>>> For example, it would be great to be able to generate a DELETE request to >>>> a uri like: >>>> >>>> <form action="http://example.org/user"” method=”delete” if-match="*"> >>>> <input name="hat-size" type="text" value="" /> >>>> <input type="submit" /> >>>> </form> >>>> >>>> *** REQUEST >>>> DELETE user?hat-size=small HTTP/1.1 >>>> Host: www.example.org >>>> >>> >>> While I am not personally convinced of this approach for deletes, I've >>> added it to the document to make sure it's recorded for discussion. >> >> Great, thanks. >> >> To illustrate it's usefulness, i would frame the requirement in response to >> a user's problem. >> >> What other mechanism would be available for a user to issue DELETE over a >> collection of sub-resources? >> >> To continue with the example of users, if the base user resource is /user >> and each individual user is located at /user/{id}, what mechanism is there >> to issue a DELETE request covering a sub-set of users? >> >> If we can issue requests to GET a sub-set of sub-resources, and if that is >> deemed to be a valid resource, then why can we not issue a DELETE over the >> same resource? ie >> >> GET /user?hat-size=small >> >> DELETE /user?hat-size=small >> >> these are both valid resources and hence both valid requests. >> >> the problem is now whether it is possible for a user to initiate this >> request for DELETE as they currently can for GET. >> >>> >>>> >>>> 4.4. Optional Added FORM Content-Types >>>> >>>> I'm not sure there is need to add JSON to form entypes. As JSON is >>>> javascript data format it could be expected that this be used only with >>>> XHR. Maybe a use case for support would be if javascript were required to >>>> manipulate data prior to the request being sent, but then couldn't JS just >>>> create the JSON from the form itself? >>> >>> Understood. >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 4.5. Optional Support for Prefer Header >>>> >>>> I don't think this is necessary, if Accept header is adhered to. Without >>>> knowing the full context the Prefer header was targeted at, I'm not sure i >>>> understand the need for it, especially in this context. >>> >>> The Prefer I-D offers agents the ability to use settings such as >>> "send-no-content", "send-status-only", etc. when making requests. I >>> don't see a way to do this w/ Accept headers right now. >>> >>> Again, I think this "Prefer" header is interesting for HTML.FORMS, but >>> not a pre-requisite for supporting PUT/DELETE. >> >> I think the Prefer header is interesting...though i am unconvinced that it >> is necessary, or even useful for html. >> >> Automated agents would seem to gain the most from its inclusion, but then >> html isn't really for them anyway. >> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 4.6. Support for Atom-Style PUT/DELETE >>>> >>>> I would be inclined to remove any default application of etags. If the >>>> server has full access to etags (and full understanding), why can it not >>>> just apply to the form as or if required? >>> >>> Understood. I, too, am not convinced of this option. However, GET >>> makes regular use of ETags already. >>> >> >> OK. No problems. >> >> Thanks, >> Cam >> >> >>>> >>>> >>>> cam >>>> >>>> On 04/04/2011, at 5:41 AM, mike amundsen wrote: >>>> >>>>> All: >>>>> >>>>> I've updated/reformatted the PUT/DELETE with HTML FORMS document[1] >>>>> with the following: >>>>> - Added "integrate w/ existing servers..." to the Goals section. >>>>> - Added "Binary Transfers" to the Scenarios section. >>>>> - Added Julian Reschke's query regarding exsting browsers handling >>>>> 201/202/204 response to the Handling Responses section. >>>>> - Added "Optional Added FORM Content Types", "Optional Support for >>>>> Prefer Header", and "Support for Atom-Style PUT/DELETE" to the "Other >>>>> Considerations" section. >>>>> >>>>> I think this reflects the key feedback from the last couple days. >>>>> >>>>> I've not had time to doing any research/testing on Julian's query >>>>> regarding current browsers' handling of 201/202/204 responses. I >>>>> figure browser folks can chime in here, eh? >>>>> >>>>> NOTE: I've cross-posted this to: >>>>> - ietf-http-wg >>>>> - public-html >>>>> - public-html-comments >>>>> >>>>> If this is overkill, let me know. >>>>> >>>>> [1]http://amundsen.com/examples/put-delete-forms/ >>>>> >>>>> mca >>>>> http://amundsen.com/blog/ >>>>> http://twitter.com@mamund >>>>> http://mamund.com/foaf.rdf#me >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> #RESTFest 2010 >>>>> http://rest-fest.googlecode.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 17:48, mike amundsen <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> I've posted a document[1] that shows one way in which HTML FORMS can >>>>>> support PUT/DELETE w/o the need for plug-ins or scripting. It's a >>>>>> quick draft but I think it covers the basics. >>>>>> >>>>>> If this is not in the desired format let me know. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> [1] http://amundsen.com/examples/put-delete-forms/ >>>>>> >>>>>> mca >>>>>> http://amundsen.com/blog/ >>>>>> http://twitter.com@mamund >>>>>> http://mamund.com/foaf.rdf#me >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> #RESTFest 2010 >>>>>> http://rest-fest.googlecode.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 14:26, mike amundsen <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> <snip> >>>>>>>> Personally I'd like to see a concrete proposal how PUT and DELETE will >>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>> (examples with HTML and HTTP interaction). Right now it's totally not >>>>>>>> clear >>>>>>>> to me. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> And *where* shod this activity happen? >>>>>>>>> - here >>>>>>> </snip> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Makes sense to me; I'll work up a few examples of HTTP/HTML this >>>>>>> evening and post a link. If/when others do the same we can use them >>>>>>> all as references in any discussion. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> mca >>>>>>> http://amundsen.com/blog/ >>>>>>> http://twitter.com@mamund >>>>>>> http://mamund.com/foaf.rdf#me >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> #RESTFest 2010 >>>>>>> http://rest-fest.googlecode.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 14:14, Julian Reschke <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> On 01.04.2011 15:41, mike amundsen wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I see the bug has been re-opened. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I see there has been some discussion on public-html-comments regarding >>>>>>>>> PUT/DELETE[1]. >>>>>>>>> I also note at least one suggestion in that thread was to discuss this >>>>>>>>> on the whatwg list[2]. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> What is the preferred way to proceed here? >>>>>>>>> - List concerns/reservations and deal with them as they come up? >>>>>>>>> - Draw up a straw man proposal (is there a standard format for this)? >>>>>>>>> - Some other process? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Personally I'd like to see a concrete proposal how PUT and DELETE will >>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>> (examples with HTML and HTTP interaction). Right now it's totally not >>>>>>>> clear >>>>>>>> to me. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> And *where* shod this activity happen? >>>>>>>>> - here >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Here should be fine. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Best regards, Julian >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >> >>
